The UN and our new messiah

[roosterjuicer]

North Korea launches rocket, sparks international criticism - CNN.com

I personally dont care much if the North Koreans have long range rockets. We have the ability to shoot them down. If they want a satellite thats fine, we have them, a lot of other countries have them, its no skin of my back. Obviously I don't want them launching nukes but unfortunately the same rockets that launch satellites launch nukes.

However it seems like the international community really really really doesn't want the North Korean's to launch this rocket.

That being said, the UN is useless. All they do is yap yap yap, they don't do anything. If someone doesn't listen to what you say after resolution after resolution, obviously something isn't working. The UN is great for people who play by the rules (which is great when you want to) but if a country doesn't want to play by that particular rule or a country like north korea doesn't play by any of the rules then there is no need to listen to the UN.

Also, I know in a dream world it would be great if there were no nukes, and the messiah is talking about getting rid of them. but that is stupid. Nukes are a necessary evil for their deterrent effect. Im sure a lot of countries who play by the rules will get rid of them if this thing does through but im sure it wont, but what about the North Korea's and the Iran's of the world who dont play by the rules? they will have nukes and we wont have them, thus the guys who don't play by the rules wont be deterred and the guys who do play by the rules will be considerably weaker.

[LeonOfTheDead]

North Korea launches rocket, sparks international criticism - CNN.com

I personally dont care much if the North Koreans have long range rockets. We have the ability to shoot them down. If they want a satellite thats fine, we have them, a lot of other countries have them, its no skin of my back. Obviously I don't want them launching nukes but unfortunately the same rockets that launch satellites launch nukes.

However it seems like the international community really really really doesn't want the North Korean's to launch this rocket.

That being said, the UN is useless. All they do is yap yap yap, they don't do anything. If someone doesn't listen to what you say after resolution after resolution, obviously something isn't working. The UN is great for people who play by the rules (which is great when you want to) but if a country doesn't want to play by that particular rule or a country like north korea doesn't play by any of the rules then there is no need to listen to the UN.

Also, I know in a dream world it would be great if there were no nukes, and the messiah is talking about getting rid of them. but that is stupid. Nukes are a necessary evil for their deterrent effect. Im sure a lot of countries who play by the rules will get rid of them if this thing does through but im sure it wont, but what about the North Korea's and the Iran's of the world who dont play by the rules? they will have nukes and we wont have them, thus the guys who don't play by the rules wont be deterred and the guys who do play by the rules will be considerably weaker.

you forgot to say two things: you have nukes, and the US didn't listen to UN in the past.
otherwise, agree.

[john14]

Nobody knows if North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il will actually use nuclear weapons to attack other countries or whether or not those attacks will actually kill many people and damage buildings etcetera.

[roosterjuicer]

i didn't think it needed to be said that we had nukes since we invented them an all i figured it was assumed. and thats why i was saying they are a necessary evil, i like us having nukes, i think there is no way that nobody will have nukes so its better if we dont get rid of ours for their deterrent effect

I was sort of insinuating that we haven't always listened to the UN with my (which is great when you want to). but thats kind of the point, the UN is pretty useless if someone doesn't want to listen to it.

[Cyco]

So you like having nukes for a deterrent effect, but don't think Nth Korea should have them, for a deterrent effect?

I'm very sceptical of the US' ability to shoot down a rocket attack

[LeonOfTheDead]

So you like having nukes for a deterrent effect, but don't think Nth Korea should have them, for a deterrent effect?

I'm very sceptical of the US' ability to shoot down a rocket attack

you could always nuke it

[roosterjuicer]

I'm very sceptical of the US' ability to shoot down a rocket attack

Any justification for that?

[LTSmash]

Also, I know in a dream world it would be great if there were no nukes, and the messiah is talking about getting rid of them. but that is stupid. Nukes are a necessary evil for their deterrent effect. Im sure a lot of countries who play by the rules will get rid of them if this thing does through but im sure it wont, but what about the North Korea's and the Iran's of the world who dont play by the rules? they will have nukes and we wont have them, thus the guys who don't play by the rules wont be deterred and the guys who do play by the rules will be considerably weaker.

This is the same argument for gun control. Take em' away for all and the baddies will still find a way to get them. His stance on munitions development (or should I say lack of) is so inane. He's against so many weapons programs and wants to terminate many projects, which doesn't make sense at all to me. In this day and age, I would think that he would be all for new and innovative ways of self defense.

[roosterjuicer]

plus...i dont think the best way to help the economy is to take down the thousands of jobs related to both the gun and national defense industry in this country. but then again i guess im not an economics expert.

[blingbling]

the guys who do play by the rules will be considerably weaker.

thats why you guys went into iraq. nothing in this thread besides obvious information IMO. </end>

Any justification for that?

do you know anything thats good at aiming at objects moving at 3 miles per second?

[LTSmash]

plus...i dont think the best way to help the economy is to take down the thousands of jobs related to both the gun and national defense industry in this country. but then again i guess im not an economics expert.

Boeing, Lockheed May Lose as Obama, McCain Reject Big Weapons - Bloomberg.com

This was an interesting read. I will have to admit that I didn't know McCain's stance on Lockheed... shocker.

Just to add a little bit to the discussion, remember how many people made the argument against Kerry back in 2004 because of his ideas against munitions programs; then Zell Miller made that speech.

[roosterjuicer]

just cause its obvious information doesn't mean there shouldn't be a respectful dialogue about it. half of what is on this website is obvious information but people still manage to argue about it, thats what makes this website fun. I mean, its obvious that GTR's are incredible cars for the money yet people still argue about whether there are better cars out there and about its faults, its obvious that reasonable minds will differ even about obvious information.

dont be a debby downer!

[roosterjuicer]

do you know anything thats good at aiming at objects moving at 3 miles per second?

I know the navy has effectively shot down a satellite, I know the navy is quite effective at shooting down very fast moving cruise missiles using things ranging from guns to missiles. I know patriot batteries are very effective at shooting down missiles also.

if i remember correctly the navy has been putting a lot of time and effort into shooting down ICBM's recently but im not sure how the tests turned out. maybe cpm can shed some light on the subject.

[2ndclasscitizen]

That being said, the UN is useless. All they do is yap yap yap, they don't do anything. If someone doesn't listen to what you say after resolution after resolution, obviously something isn't working. The UN is great for people who play by the rules (which is great when you want to) but if a country doesn't want to play by that particular rule or a country like north korea doesn't play by any of the rules then there is no need to listen to the UN.

That's because the Russians and Chinese are quite fond of either vetoing resolutions or sitting out in order to use that as a bargasining chip later on. The UN is also under-funded as countries don't pay what they are required to to the UN.

The problem isn't the UN, it's the complete lack of will on the part of the powerful member nations to do anything about the issues the UN resolutions are trying to tackle.

Also, I know in a dream world it would be great if there were no nukes, and the messiah is talking about getting rid of them. but that is stupid. Nukes are a necessary evil for their deterrent effect. Im sure a lot of countries who play by the rules will get rid of them if this thing does through but im sure it wont, but what about the North Korea's and the Iran's of the world who dont play by the rules? they will have nukes and we wont have them, thus the guys who don't play by the rules wont be deterred and the guys who do play by the rules will be considerably weaker.

No Western nation is going to nuke another country, nor is any nuclear retaliation ever going to be possible. Of the countries likely to ever go batshit insane enough to push the button, the Indians and Pakistanis are only going to nuke each other, and the Israelis will glass Iran, and then whoever pipes up. You can't nuke terrorists. They are pointless.

This is the same argument for gun control. Take em' away for all and the baddies will still find a way to get them. His stance on munitions development (or should I say lack of) is so inane. He's against so many weapons programs and wants to terminate many projects, which doesn't make sense at all to me. In this day and age, I would think that he would be all for new and innovative ways of self defense.

The biggest threat to the USA is terrorism. What new sort of bomb, gun, fighter, tank, whatever, is going to work against that?

I know the navy has effectively shot down a satellite, I know the navy is quite effective at shooting down very fast moving cruise missiles using things ranging from guns to missiles. I know patriot batteries are very effective at shooting down missiles also.

if i remember correctly the navy has been putting a lot of time and effort into shooting down ICBM's recently but im not sure how the tests turned out. maybe cpm can shed some light on the subject.

Only the Russians can knock down an ICBM. Anti-ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[LTSmash]

The biggest threat to the USA is terrorism. What new sort of bomb, gun, fighter, tank, whatever, is going to work against that?

We are fighting Al-Qaeda (terrorists) in Afghanistan. The soldiers there use bombs, guns, fighters, tanks, and whatever.