Why buy an SUV ??

[henk4]

50-60 miles per gallon? What cars are these? Even a Prius has trouble averaging economy that high. The only car I've ever seen rated so high was the Honda Insight.

The diesel revolution has passed you by obviously. If you would take an average two litre diesel car available over here and drive it according to the USA speed limits, you would easily get between 18-20 km from a litre of fuel. Somebody can do the calculation into mpg, but I am sure you will arrive at figures between 50 and 60. Small diesel cars, still capable of running 160 kph if need be, would on average use less than one litre every 24-26 km. And before you start bashing diesel cars as being noisy and slow, try a modern one first.

[henk4]

Another thing I must comment on, this constant comparison of European and US cars is starting to get ridiculus. European and US cultures, roads, and vehicles are very different. You have to be here to understand and we have to be there to understand. The US will NEVER be like Europe and Europe will NEVER be like the US! End of story.

I have just spent four weeks on the road in Canada (comparable to the USA as far as car sales is concerned) and yes the roads are wider (but generally of poorer quality) and the vehicles are different. Cities, or rather the extensions around a 100 plus year old railway station, are laid out wide and open, parking spaces are much bigger, but all of this did not give me the impression that I really needed an SUV or a truck to thoroughly enjoy this. I have used a Pontiac Grand-Am (probably considered as a small car overthere) but I would have loved to have my own (similar sized) Citroen there, first of all to fully enjoy the long distance confort of a properly suspended car and secondly to enjoy the low price of diesel fuel, combined with the economy that enforced speed limits can produce.

[Matra et Alpine]

50-60 miles per gallon? What cars are these? Even a Prius has trouble averaging economy that high. The only car I've ever seen rated so high was the Honda Insight.

BECAUSE YOU ONLY LOOK AT CARS AVAILABLE IN AMERICA !!

Come on guys I'm fed up pointing this out to you, waken up and smell the coffee

Ford Fiesta Duratorq 65.7 mpg
Ford Fusion 64.2 mpg
Citroen C2 68.2 mpg
Citroen C3 67.3 mpg
Renault Clio 67.3 mpg
Peugeot 205 65.7 mpg
Audi A2 64.2 mpg
Renault Megane 62.8 mpg
Toyota Yaris 64.2 mpg
Mazda 2 62.8 mpg
Mercedes A160 62.8 mpg
VW Lupo 64.2 mpg
Fiat Punto 62.8 mpg
Citroen Xsara 62.8 mpg
Peugeot 307 62.8 mpg
SEAT Ibiza 61.4 mpg
MINI One 58.9 mpg
Skoda Fabia 57.6 mpg
Citroen Picasso 57.6 mpg
MG ZR 53.8 mpg
Volvo S40 50.4 mpg

Smart fourtwo 60.1 mpg
Daihatsu Charade 58.9 mpg
Kia Picanto 57.6 mpg
Honda Civic 57.6 mpg
Vauxhall Corsa 58.9 mpg

even a Jag X-type's available with 50.2 mpg !!!

OK, I got bored after 5 minutes of research to get the above list.
Form the search I did there are OVER 30 MANUFACTURERS selling cars in Europe with consumption in the 50-70 mpg range. It hit over 1000 car MODELS - OK some of that is trim differences and some won't be the 'style' you want, but with so many different ones to chose from there will be one but still a hell of a lot. Have you got the point ??

I would now EXPECT anyone questioning facts stated to have the decency to do the research themselves as the lesson is better learned if self-taught.

( oh and before Karmaan adds it, of course there is the Prius )

[Karrmann]

maybe I should start importing cars from england.

[Matra et Alpine]

maybe I should start importing cars from england.

Small geography lesson ( and you do realise you've just confirmed all Europeans view of US ignorance )



Scotland is NOT England and vice-versa and any suggestion is likey to end in a glasgow-kiss

Great Britain are the 3 nations of Scotland, England, Wales . The United Kingdom includes Northern Ireland.

Lonely Planet - http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinat...rope/scotland/ - is a good web site for tongue-in-cheek descriptions of countries but also for useful info if visiting

[Coventrysucks]

If you're so keen to keep Scotland seperate from England, why do your fecking Scottish MP's get to vote on legislation concerning England, but no English MP's are allowed to vote on legislation that concerns Scotland?

E.g. - University top up fees, nothing to do with Scotland at all.

Nothing to do with all the Labour MPs from Scotland is it Tony?

I personally consider Great Britain to be one "country", with Scotland, Wales and England as "super-counties".

Can we get a 'politics' Forum going as far too many threads have fallen off topic, mired in the fudgery of political arguments, as of late.

[Matra et Alpine]

If you're so keen to keep Scotland seperate from England, why do your fecking Scottish MP's get to vote on legislation concerning England, but no English MP's are allowed to vote on legislation that concerns Scotland?

E.g. - University top up fees, nothing to do with Scotland at all.

Nothing to do with all the Labour MPs from Scotland is it Tony?

You've got it right. Labour know that Scotland's votes keep THEM in power in Westminster so won't want to give it up.
Your problem, not ours ( Ours is a 500 million POUND parliament building )

I personally consider Great Britain to be one "country", with Scotland, Wales and England as "super-counties".

We are all independant nations joined by the Act of Union 1707.
So it's really nations with UK being a "super nation"

Can we get a 'politics' Forum going as far too many threads have fallen off topic, mired in the fudgery of political arguments, as of late.

Well the post you responded to was an educational piece, not political and the post before that was car consumption

Why did you want to bring up British politics - unless it upsets you that our students get FREE university education and our pensioners get FREE care ??

[Coventrysucks]

I wasn't refering to this thread only, many threads of late have become Bush vs the world arguments, which are way off the original topic.

Personally I really don't care if people don't know the difference between Scotland and England - its their problem, not mine.

Why buy an SUV?

There is no reason.
If you need to traverse tricky weather and terrain - get a proper offroader, not a poncy X5 which cowers at the sight of damp grass.
If you need to tow things - get a diesel estate. Why bother lugging round the weight of a massive truck as well as the trailer?
Need to carry equipment? - get a "commercial" off roader/ truck. Much better for lugging stuff around than an Escalade.

SUV's aren't safer than cars.
SUV's aren't more spacious than minivans/ mpvs.
SUV's are slower, and more polluting than cars.

If no one bought SUV's in the first place, you wouldn't feel "intimidated" in a normal car, as everyone else would be in cars as well.

[sandwich]

Why buy an SUV?

There is no reason.
If you need to traverse tricky weather and terrain - get a proper offroader, not a poncy X5 which cowers at the sight of damp grass.
If you need to tow things - get a diesel estate. Why bother lugging round the weight of a massive truck as well as the trailer?
Need to carry equipment? - get a "commercial" off roader/ truck. Much better for lugging stuff around than an Escalade.

SUV's aren't safer than cars.
SUV's aren't more spacious than minivans/ mpvs.
SUV's are slower, and more polluting than cars.

A little confused? An audi allroad weighs 4000lbs (1825kg) while a Nissan Frontier weighs 3600lbs. Perhaps in different leagues, but you want to make comparisons.

Secondly, I want you to do an experiment for me. Buy a SBC350 and bring it back to your house in your diesel estate. While I can do this with a friend's pickup with the help of four other guys, you're going to need an engine hoist, if you even want to get your pretty little interior oily.

Wait- so everybody who ever needs to haul stuff should buy a huge commercial, dual axle truck? Are you joking? There goes every comment that you made about efficiency.

I'm pretty sure the escalade was never intended to be used as anything other than a hiphopmobile, so let's move on, shall we?

Lastly, the X5 did pretty poorly in every test. To say that it speaks for all SUVs in less than perfect conditions is like saying Smart cars make up most of Europes automotive population.

Answer me this, what is a proper off-roader?

[sandwich]

funny how all the nagging nancies on this bored complain so much, yet the vote has 11 to 8 in favor of buying an suv....

[Coventrysucks]

My points are "in general", not specific comparisons between a Smart Miniscule and a Ford Humungous.

Also I'd like to make it quite clear that I am using the term "SUV" not "4x4", or "off roader", or "pickup", which have genuine uses.

What is a SBC350? A quick Google suggests a Chevy engine. How much does it weigh?

Americans obviously have a different meaning to "commercial off roader"
Try Nissan Navara, or Mitsubishi L200, Toyota Hilux etc.

I doubt very much that many SUVs can follow the likes of a Land Rover Defender et al off road. 90% of them are fitted with road tyres, so they're off to a bad start already.

I am not saying that all large vehicles with four wheel drive are useless, just SUV's.

[RX7 FC3S]

I don't think it is fair to pick on SUV and trucks. There are many other cars that have poor gas mileage and emission. To address the environmental problem, we should look at the big picture rather than just a specific type of vehicle.

I could have said something like this:
SUV has more room than any 2seater cars
SUV has better mileage and emission than most of the racecars
SUV is safer than a bike
However, what is the point? Different cars are built for different purpose (despite of the marketing stuff from the company’s point of view). To me SUV has a combination of roominess, towing capacity, and off road capability, as well as the four-wheel drive (I do agree that people who buy two wheel drive SUV are probably having some mental problems) that provide better handling and power delivery on surfaces like snow or ice. Not many people have the money to buy and maintain multiple cars, thus a SUV might just fit their needs.

There are a few more points about the four-wheel drive issue. Yes, a skilled driver can handle RWD or FWD cars on rough or slippery surface at ease. However, not many drivers are skillful enough for that. And I have seen a lot of cars spin out of control even when the snow on the roads/highways are removed and properly salted. Removing the snow give the clearance for car to get going, it doesn’t guarantee car to have enough grip to handle well above certain speed. I am not sure about other people, but from my experience, four-wheel drive is more advantageous than FWD. Again, I haven’t driven enough cars to make it a statement, but it is my own experience. Agree or not is up to you.

Of course, there are people just want to buy a huge SUV to show off or things like that, that type of people deserve to get spanked in their S. However, it is the problem of their attitudes, not the car.

Personally, I don’t like big cars, and I don’t like cars that sip too much gas (I don’t have much money and gas cost a lot nowadays). However, I just don’t like the idea that SUV is the only type of car getting the bash.

[RX7 FC3S]

I was still typing when you post your message, coventry. I just did a quick search over the vehicles you mentioned. They are all powered by diesel, right? I don’t think we have those models in the State and Canada (there is a chance that I might be wrong, because I just couldn’t find it on their official website). I still see some diesel trucks over here, but they are not common.
I am not sure about the State but in places where I have live in, not every single gas station offer diesel. This might be one of the reasons why people buy the gas version instead of the diesel one.

[Matra et Alpine]

I was still typing when you post your message, coventry. I just did a quick search over the vehicles you mentioned. They are all powered by diesel, right?

It was me that posted the list to shoe evidence of a disputed fuel consupmtion figure I'd used earlier.

The first group ARE diesels.
The second group are petrol.

I don’t think we have those models in the State and Canada (there is a chance that I might be wrong, because I just couldn’t find it on their official website). I still see some diesel trucks over here, but they are not common.

Agreed, and why not ?
Becuse Ford, GM etal have a huge investment in big petrol engines.
To do a decent diesel they would have to pay LOTS of roylaties to PSA in France who have been major innovators in producing powerful, responsive, clean diesels !!

I am not sure about the State but in places where I have live in, not every single gas station offer diesel. This might be one of the reasons why people buy the gas version instead of the diesel one.

Yep, and 20 years ago in Europe nobody did unleaded.
Within a year of emissions controls EVERY garage had unleaded.
The question has to be why the American consumer isn't offered the choice of decent diesel cars. Personally I think because US trucks are huge soot-belchers and so everyone associates diesel with dirty. It doesn't have to be

[Coventrysucks]

I still see some diesel trucks over here, but they are not common.

Some Irony (like goldy or bronzy) in connection with American SUVs (not capable off roaders, of practical trucks which people use out of neccessity)

Most SUVs are neither Sporty, or Utilitarian.

There is a pitiful percentage of diesel SUVs.
Not only would they benefit from better gas milage, therefore cost you even less to run, but they'd have huge ammounts of torque, which makes towing/ carrying heavy loads even easier.