2011 Mustang GT power leaked

[fpv_gtho]

Apparently it'll have 390 lb/ft torque Update: 2011 Ford Mustang GT features 412 hp/390 lb-ft 5.0 V8

[Rasmus]

You know you can, somehow.
That said, the gf's neighbor with the pre-update GT isn't aging well. The paint is getting opaque, espeecially the red stripe (main color is silver), and he bought a specific car cover to protect the body. The black plastic parts are also a bit whitish. Will get a look at the interior too.
He recently bought some sort of Caterham too (not exactly the right period of the year...).

It really depends on the owner, but that applies to any car. Example: The gf's 06 GT has over 60k miles on it, has always been parked outside in the sun, yet have no faded plastic bits. I can honestly say I haven't seen any S197 with major signs of UV damage to either paint nor plastic. The previous model years are somewhat bad at it though.

Ford factory stripes are vinyl, and they're rubbish. Most GT500 owners opt to have them removed and painted on instead. The vinyl has a tendency to crack.

The 2011 will have the same block as the 2005 and up, but the heads are all new -- as mentioned they are 4v. Also, the new crank is forged. I have a feeling it's because the went with more stroke instead of bigger bore. Hopefully they will have done something with the rods, which so far have been a major weak point for most enthusiasts.

[fpv_gtho]

Its not a carryover block. The bore spacing i think is the same, but both the 4.6L and 5L are essentially square bore/stroke.

[Kitdy]

Merry Christmas everyone, happy leaking!

It sure looks nice. I don't really see how Ford can screw this up. The GT is gonna make the Camaro and Challenger look completely pointless.

EDIT: Second photo added.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Am I the only one thinking the V6 looks better?

[Ferrer]

Don't they look about the same except for some badges?

[G35COUPE]

I have a friend who drags his 2009 GT every weekend during racing season, and i am impressed at how almost bullet proof the GT has become--very reliable. The Mustang GT is a great car. if i had the money, i would get one. You can't go wrong with the GT. Lets wait and see how the V-6 would hold up.

FORD's bold moves these days, is impressing the heck out of me.

[culver]

Am I the only one thinking the V6 looks better?

If you mean the sedan I could see it. If you mean motor... nope can't see that.

[Niko_Fx]

Gotta wait and see what they will sell for, right now some dealers are trying to sell 2010 GTs fully loaded for $40k which is a total joke...

A monster without a doubt though, I should go back and search for posts in UCP where people comment about the horsepower wars being over... sorry guys, not in here, not in Europe, not in Japan..

[fpv_gtho]

Deep Dive: Ford's all-new 5.0 V8 — Autoblog

Heaps of other sites are reporting more in-depth on the engine now as well.

[john14]

Wouter makes a good point in relation to the 2010 spec Mustang lacking power but the new Mustang's output of 412 hp/390 lb-ft from a 5.0 V8 sounds exciting.

[LeonOfTheDead]

If you mean the sedan I could see it. If you mean motor... nope can't see that.

I mean only the look. I prefer the V6's single headlights.

[G35COUPE]

I read a bit about the new engine and I have my little concerns here.

The article says, "As any good athlete will tell you, the key to performance is respiration – get the air in and the exhaust out. When it comes to airflow, the best approach is a straight shot. Anytime the flow has to change direction it slows down. Ideally you also want the largest possible orifice to deliver air with minimal restriction."

My concern with this article is that the best approach to airflow isn't necessarily a straightshot. This is a useless comment. What about the temperature and humditiy of the air flowing into the combustion chambers? Are the writers of that article blind to that? How has FORD addressed the air charge temperatures relative to the new single barrel throttle body? Overly hot air will equally reduce the power produced by this engine, in the same way a restricted intake can.

And by the way, the largest possible orifice is not necessarily the best type of orifice. What good is a large air orifice if the engine block is unable to efficiently consume all that air efficiently???????????? In fact, i suspect this straightshot approach is why this car produces all its torque at a meager 4,000 rpm.

And then the article suggests that anytime air changes direction, then it potentially slows down. I disagree with them here. The Infiniti G37 with a 3.7 litre engine actually uses air that swirls (constantly changing direction) violently, to make 330 horsepower. This sort of air is called a vortex. A good cool and consistent vortex, even with a small orifice, can be as effective as a large orifice designed to be a straight shot.

The article also states, "On the new 5.0, the alternator has been moved down to the side of the block leaving the valley completely unencumbered for a large 80mm single-barrel throttle body."

My beleif here is that in attempts to make more power, the alternator has now been moved to a position where it may potentially accumulate more heat and thus reduced reliability. I think the dual barrel throttle barrel should have been left alone with the alternator, and reworked with other ingenuities to create a faster moving air using the same size throttle body bore.

The article also suggests, "Even without using direct injection, Ford was still able to achieve an impressive 11:1 compression ratio while allowing the engine to still run on regular gas. According to Harrison, a lot of effort was expended on the engine management system. The adaptive spark control system keeps the engine running right on the knock sensor all the time, continuously adjusting the spark advance to avoid detonation regardless of the fuel used. The control system has a high bandwidth air-fuel control algorithm to make sure that it's both responsive and efficient. The 5.0 has also benefited from work done on the Fusion Hybrid by incorporating aggressive deceleration fuel shut-off. Whenever the throttle is released, fuel flow is shut off completely to improve efficiency."

There are many cars out there without direct injection that produce at least 10.3 to 11.0 to 1 compression ratios. However, most of them use premium gas to run. With the adaptive spark system they are using, I am fearful that when such a system fails, it may not be apparent to a driver flogging their car on regular gas and thus, a possible engine knock as a result of the high compression ratios. Even if a sensor is measuring this adaptive knock system for potential failures, will the owner of the vehicle even consider or think of using premium gas as a way to forestall potential failure, assuming they know nothing about cars????????????

I won't even consider putting regular gas into this car, even if FORD said so, given its very high compression ratios.

The article also says, "While torque peaks at 4,000 rpm, it's well above 300 pound-feet throughout most of the rpm range. The redline of the 5.0 has also been moved up an extra 500 rpm compared to the prior 4.6-liter to a full 7,000 rpm, and judging by the curves we were shown, it will probably be worth using all of them."

For daily driving, the torque distribution maybe okay. For spirited and race related driving, most of that torque should go to the top end at about 5,000 rpm or more. This means, at some point, after market air intakes will help to shift the torque curve to higher rpm ranges.

I also get the feeling the gearing of this car maybe taller gears from 1-3 and shorter ones from 4 - 6. I maybe wrong.

As far as i am concerned, the 4.6 litre engine has proved itself to be reliable. At least i know someone who flogs that engine in severe ways on a drag strip and it holds up pretty well. Lets wait and see how this new engine holds up. I actually thought FORD would use the same engine design of the 4.6 litre engine on this new design. For this, I shall adopt a wait and see and approach.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Yes, air slows down when facing any sort of change in direction, it's fluid dynamics and you can't argue about it. What vortex is about is mixing air and fuel, not about speed. With more speed, more air enters the cylinder, and with more air you can use more fuel, if looking for more performance, or less, if you're looking on a better mileage.
Given the low viscosity of gasoline, the mixture of air and fuel is ensured even just during the compression process unlike in a diesel engine where a much higher pressure is required. A good vortex surely helps, but it's a different aspect, and it's something you get mainly with the direction you give to the air when entering into the cylinder or in the last part of the intake.
Related to this, a large orifice is always a good thing, as air is "free" and the more it enters into the cylinder, the more fuel you're allowed to use, if you want. A high air speed and a good vortes will help you use that air, but even if you don't use it, no harm done.

Regarding air humidity and temperature changes, that has nothing to do with what it was wrote in the article, as they would affect even a twisted intake. More specifically, a variation in humidity will affect a twisted intake to a larger effect, as it would slow down the air even more. Temperature would have a similar effect, just smaller.
Once again, fluid dynamics.

Regarding the possibility of knocking, that would be the case also in any other engine, if the system monitoring it fails, and even if it doesn't, there are sensors just to check of knocking is taking place or not, regardless of everything else. as a safe check.

Last but not least, I can't see how having a good percentage of the peak torque distributed on the whole revs range can hurt during spirited driving or even racing.
As far as I can see having say 250 pound-feet during the whole time is better than just having even 350 during only a 1.000 revs range and 200 or less for the rest of the time, as it would be very easy to get the revs wrong and slow down excessively. You'd need to use the gearbox much more often, and slow down even more.
On the other hand, given the engine will generate the same amount of power, having more torque at higher revs and less at lower revs would mean having a more nervous engine, which even if it sounds racing it doesn't mean it will be any faster or better performing.
The V8 use by Corvette in GT racing has a nice and flat torque curve, the V8 of the Saleen is even better from this point of view, and when the otherwise more powerful screamer V12 from the Maserati was running on air restrictors to generate the same power (sort of), the two American cars had a clear advantage thanks to having more torque at lower revs.

Eventually, ask Rasmus about the reliability of the GT engine when raced.

[G35COUPE]

My good friend, a vortex is air flowing under turbulent conditions which means the air is deliberately being fooled to change directions on its path, and thus gain tremendous acceleration at its outer layers, while its inner core remains relatively slow, as it finds its way into combustion chamber. Think about Tornados--thats how they work. By direction, if you mean the twists in the air intake baffles and piping, then i agree with you. But if you mean, twisting the air itself, then i disagree with you. So, there are two types of directional changes both of us may be implying here.

Secondly, the heat transfer and thermodynamic properties of air going into the combustion chamber is as important as the fluid dynamic characteristics of the air itself. The article focuses on the fluid dynamics of the air charge and neglects the heat transfer and thermodynamic properties of that air charge. Most of all, whether you agree or not, the temperature of an air charge has a significant effect on the amount of power a performance car produces, whether NA or turboed/supercharged, especially after a few moments of hard driving. Ever heard of ethanol/water injection or ever heard of intercoolers in turbos/superchargers? Why do you think they are sometimes used---to cool the air charge?

I have also found that the larger the orifice, does not imply the better useage of the air charge. In fact, in a thermodynamically poor design, the larger the air charge, the larger the amount of hot air one maybe introducing into the engine, which may end up knocking that engine. So, the idea of larger orificies, is a very relative concept.

In my opinion, finding ways to cool the air charge rather than making the intake and throttle body larger, would have been just as effective with this new engine.


Rasmus's car is turboed, IIRC. So, I can't speak for the reliability of a turboed GT engine. My coments are geared towards an NA GT engine which i see all the time.