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Thread: The State of The Car

  1. #436
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    The state of the car?

    More gadgets, less gauges, and manuals for those who can't drive them.

    Pretty grim.

    At least HP is high and fuel economy is better.

    Or something.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    It is indeed the Fusion, although in Europe the old Mondeo soldiers on for the moment.
    We got something before the old world?
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    We got something before the old world?
    yes, Ford wanted to close the Genk plant in Belgium, which was earmarked for the production. As is seemed to be rather odd to start the new Mondeo production there and then close down the factory within in a year, Ford decided to postpone the introduction and close the factory first. And for what it is worth the D-segment sedans in which the Mondeo fits is not selling pretty well in Europe. People seem to prefer the A4 and 3-series, which size-wise are more C-segmenters, but have the all important image.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    yes, Ford wanted to close the Genk plant in Belgium, which was earmarked for the production. As is seemed to be rather odd to start the new Mondeo production there and then close down the factory within in a year, Ford decided to postpone the introduction and close the factory first. And for what it is worth the D-segment sedans in which the Mondeo fits is not selling pretty well in Europe. People seem to prefer the A4 and 3-series, which size-wise are more C-segmenters, but have the all important image.
    This is true, but only partly.

    It's not that the 3er and C-Class have become over they year C-Segment cars, but rather that the D-segment saloons and estates from mainstream manufacturers have grown so much that they are as big as the old executive saloons from those manufacturers (Omega, Scorpio) used to be.

    Also C-segment cars have grown to an extent that their size is now preposterous.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    This is true, but only partly.

    It's not that the 3er and C-Class have become over they year C-Segment cars, but rather that the D-segment saloons and estates from mainstream manufacturers have grown so much that they are as big as the old executive saloons from those manufacturers (Omega, Scorpio) used to be.

    Also C-segment cars have grown to an extent that their size is now preposterous.
    In a D-Class car you'd expect to be able to transport five people in relative comfort. Not so in a BMW or a Mercedes C-Class.

    And as far as size increas is concerned: The current Mercedes C-class will offer more space than the pontoon 220S of the fifties...
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    In a D-Class car you'd expect to be able to transport five people in relative comfort. Not so in a BMW or a Mercedes C-Class.

    And as far as size increas is concerned: The current Mercedes C-class will offer more space than the pontoon 220S of the fifties...
    Well, I technically fit in the back seats of a Porsche 911, so a BMW 3 Series is like a limousine for me...

    Anyway, cars have just grown too much these days.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Well, I technically fit in the back seats of a Porsche 911, so a BMW 3 Series is like a limousine for me...

    Anyway, cars have just grown too much these days.
    three Ferrers on the rear seats of a 3-series would be a different story...
    (and the Porsche 911 was homologated as a touring car for a year, until the powers realised their stupid decision. yet the Alfa GTA was also a touring car)

    And 80% of car sales today in Europe is probably A and B class...
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    three Ferrers on the rear seats of a 3-series would be a different story...
    (and the Porsche 911 was homologated as a touring car for a year, until the powers realised their stupid decision. yet the Alfa GTA was also a touring car)

    And 80% of car sales today in Europe is probably A and B class...
    I'm a small chap! But I don't know how tight a fit would be to have three Ferrers in the back of a 3er.

    By the way, I would say that it's the B and C-segment which rack up most of European sales. A-segment cars are popular in some countries (Italy) but not successful in others (Spain).
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  9. #444
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    I've been in a "transition period" at work, so I've had a lot of time on my hands to read about old cars and otherwise tapdance around the internet restrictions we have here. In my readings, on Ate Up With Motor and other fantastic sites, I've accidentally managed to recalibrate some of my opinions about cars. From reading the (online) car rags and watching the YouTube reviews of modern machinery, I had begun thinking that the current crop of 300+ hp 3,800 lb. (1,700kg) midsizers were neither particularly-heavy nor particularly-powerful. However, in reading about all of these old "portly at 3,000 pounds (1,350kg)" or "powerful 210 hp" cars, my system is being reset.

    I think part of the blame lies on my current car; its 165hp and 2,900 lbs (1,300kg) definitly do not a fast car make, but second-gear pulls sound glorious, feel fast enough, and only exceed the speed limits of rural highways by a little. All-in-all it's plenty fast enough for me, though it would definitley be nice if it was faster. When I started driving, the tools at my disposal were a 125hp 3,200lb (1,450kg) Toyota Camry Wagon with the detestable automatic that was awful and slow and a 110hp 2,400lb (1,100kg) Ford Escort that was awful and slow and fun. At the time, my voracious appetite for car mags made me acutely aware of just how slow those cars were. In my youthfull naÔvetť, I thought that most of the other cars on the road were as powerful and fast as the ones in the magazines. Aside from the odd time having my face melted in my grandfather's MonarGoat and in friends' BMWs, I got used to the relaxed pace of the Toyota and Ford and scrambling to keep up with traffic. Despite that, I thought that a 300 horse car wouldn't fell that fast and would allow me to keep up.

    Five years later, with my own car now, I do not have to scramble to keep up with traffic and I don't feel like I need 9,999,999 rwfwawbhpz (though it might be nice). My '80s car has put me in an '80s mindset. I'm also testdriving old Saab 900s and am still a little suprsied at how much difference there is between the 130hp base, 160hp Turbo, and 175hp SPG. The old me would have dismissed these all as various flavors of slow, but there was a very noticable difference in zing and the SPG definitley feels as strong as my Supra, or even a little moreso.

    Now that I read more, on a week-to-week basis, about old cars than new, and with my '80s-car experiences, I am beginning to understand the writers when they say "a powerful 210hp car". I am also beginning to understand lightness. Ironically enough, until I was six or seven, I was herded around in either my dad's 1,800lb (850kg) Festiva, his 2,000lb (900kg) Fiat Spider 1600, or my mom's 2,400lb (1,100kg) Celica, but I was too young to really remember or analyze these cars' handling. In more recent years, I've ridden along in Miatas and S2000s as well as driving/riding on motorcycles and our sub-600lb (270kg) FSAE racer, me inclusive. These cars have brought lightness crisply into my focus and, unsurprisingly, have been some of the most fun vehicles I've ridden or driven in.

    I think that this new perspective is for the best; it lets me see the absurdity and silliness that are contemporary car statistics while appreciating old cars like I haven't before. It's convenient because the only cars I can afford seem to come from the '80s.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  10. #445
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    You want to have originated from that decade like all the best humans but you are from the 90s and thus you are chanelling your energies into 80s shitboxes with shoddy electronics.

    I saw a 164 at work headed to the auctions and wanted it.

  11. #446
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    You should come to Europe where a 200+ bhp car is considered a serious high performance machine.

    Also, the 80's are the best decade ever.

    Having said that, these days most cars allow for very decent progress, if you know how to make them work. Even something basic like a Toyota Aygo can hit 150-160km/h and while you will not be setting any lap-time records at the Nurburgring it won't fall apart in the corners.

    And as long as you are not going really for it is and there's a dual carriageway in the path you'll be going pretty as much as fast in your Aygo as you would in a Lexus IS-F, V8 and all.

    The problem is when your are out of dual carriageways and motorways and into normal roads with one lane per direction. If there was no traffic again, the kind of pace achieved by an average driver in a V8 sports saloon or a three cylinder city car would pretty much the same.

    Unfortunately in the real world there is traffic which you have to overtake in order to not slow down your rate of progress. And here is where the 5 litre V8 makes a big difference. Because the 400+ bhp Lexus can overtake in places where the 68bhp Toyota can't, and this makes a big dent in the actual traveling time.

    This is something that happens sometimes with my car (126bhp, 1165kg) which is fast in the corners but slow on the straights, whereas the Mercedes (170bhp, 1485kg) feels much more cumbersome in the corners, but the thrust from the torquey engine makes overtakings possible in places where in the Mazda you just have to wait behind the farmer in his old CitroŽn C-15.

    As a monumental car bore it pains me to say it but the performance that the A-Class delivers is all the performance you are ever going to me. The XF 4.2 (300bhp, 1780kg) is a lovely car, but really the big V8 is overkill. Especially these days with speed cameras, speed bumps, criminalized speeds and license-losing fines.

    This brings me to the next point, lightness. As I said the big Jag is an excellent car, comfortable, quick and if you flick the gearbox into Sport, use the paddles and go for it, it is quite good fun throw around the corners. But in a typical European mountain road the weight and bulk of the thing is felt and it simply doesn't give the confidence to attack in the same way the MX-5 does. I remember one day driving in convoy Jag and Mazda and while the V8 roared and distanced itself in the straights I could brake much later and close-up in the corners. It was a bit like mosquito v elephant!

    So in conclusion, lightness is good; but in the real world of farmers and soccer moms in SUVs a bit of power is welcomed too.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    You want to have originated from that decade like all the best humans but you are from the 90s and thus you are chanelling your energies into 80s shitboxes with shoddy electronics.
    Nineties' childz are better bro.

    Yes, I am looking forward to problems from the APC (early-'80s spec electronic boost controller) on whatever 900 I buy.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  13. #448
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    I think the 80's had great cars, but one thing I won't miss are the automatic seatbelts. Those things sucked and didn't work. Plus you still needed to do the lap belt manually, on the Hondas I've seen at least.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    Yes, I am looking forward to problems from the APC (early-'80s spec electronic boost controller) on whatever 900 I buy.
    First, you have to find one with a good transmission. And bodywork. And one with a proper idle would be nice.

    Shoddy electronics? My 900 survived a backwards connected battery!
    Last edited by Revo; 10-17-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  15. #450
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    Hello Friends,

    I m New member of this forum community. I m car lover.

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