The State of The Car

[Ferrer]

And what is it now?

[Kitdy]

A front engined, rear wheel drive American interpretation of a sportscar with a smallblock OHV engine that can punch above its weight.

It wouldn't be worth the money for GM to develop either: a) a halo version that is MR (as some rags have wantonly speculated), or b) a mid-engine only C8. Performance is already ridiculous and balance is great.

[Ferrer]

There I was thinking it was a cheap car with a crap interior and dated technology which couldn't go round corners...!

Anyway, we can't get one here, so we'll have to make do with the Mustang (when it arrives).

[pimento]

On one hand, I always amused when people get grumpy because the thing they like gets changed. On the other hand, I'd like to see GM just let loose and do something ground up, rather than tie it to the Corvette legacy/design.

[NSXType-R]

Meh. It's not what a Corvette is. A Corvette is what it is now.

I'm calling it a Corvette because I don't have a better name for it.

A front engined, rear wheel drive American interpretation of a sportscar with a smallblock OHV engine that can punch above its weight.

It wouldn't be worth the money for GM to develop either: a) a halo version that is MR (as some rags have wantonly speculated), or b) a mid-engine only C8. Performance is already ridiculous and balance is great.

It wouldn't, but I think it'd be along the same reasons VW developed the Veyron. It doesn't need to make sense for them to do it.

There I was thinking it was a cheap car with a crap interior and dated technology which couldn't go round corners...!

Anyway, we can't get one here, so we'll have to make do with the Mustang (when it arrives).

That's called the Camaro.

On one hand, I always amused when people get grumpy because the thing they like gets changed. On the other hand, I'd like to see GM just let loose and do something ground up, rather than tie it to the Corvette legacy/design.

I feel like the last time GM made something interesting was the Fiero, and the time before that the Corvair.

I guess GM could call it a Cadillac, turn it into a R8 competitor to make it more appealing and not to piss off any Corvette enthusiasts. Besides, it's not like I'm proposing to kill the Corvette for something mid engined.

I can't think of any other mid engined V8 cars other than the Ferrari 458 and the Audi R8. Maybe the Noble and the Koenisegg too, but those are not really high volume cars.

[Ferrer]

[quote=NSXType-R;1010233]It wouldn't, but I think it'd be along the same reasons VW developed the Veyron. It doesn't need to make sense for them to do it.
That wasn't VW but rather Ferdinand Piëch. I personally found much more interesting his other lunatical project.

I feel like the last time GM made something interesting was the Fiero, and the time before that the Corvair.

What about the Tempest, Riviera, Toronado, C2 Corvette, original Saturns, late 80's/early 90's Opels...

I guess GM could call it a Cadillac, turn it into a R8 competitor to make it more appealing and not to piss off any Corvette enthusiasts. Besides, it's not like I'm proposing to kill the Corvette for something mid engined.

This week we had news that Cadillac want to develop a 911 competitor, so who knows...

I can't think of any other mid engined V8 cars other than the Ferrari 458 and the Audi R8. Maybe the Noble and the Koenisegg too, but those are not really high volume cars.

Well mid-engined V8 is not bound to be an affordable proposition, but nevertheless you could add the junior McLaren which is about be launched.

[f6fhellcat13]

What about the Tempest, Riviera, Toronado, C2 Corvette, original Saturns, late 80's/early 90's Opels...

Saturn was interesting as a sales exercise. The cars themselves were just GM front-drivers with plastic body panels, which is to say: uninteresting. Pretty much all the rest were Ed Cole-era like the Corvair. GM has been GM for a long time and interesting cars were never meant to factor to heavily into that.

What was Opel doing in the late '80s that was interesting?

[Ferrer]

The Kadett GSI had a monster of an engine, it was the most powerful ("normal") hot hatch of the time. Sure the chassis was rubbish, but in terms of engines Opel was at the top of the game back then. They were both good performers as well as frugal compared to competition (helped in no doubt by aerodynamics, as had the class leading Calibra). Then there was the Lotus Omega/Carlton, but that's another story.

Didn't the Saturns have a spaceframe chassis with plastic body panels bolted on to it? That surely has to be at least slightly interesting and different.

Maybe I'm just confusing interesting with good here.

[Ferrer]

By the way, can the Volt/Ampera be considered interesting?

[f6fhellcat13]

The Kadett GSI had a monster of an engine, it was the most powerful ("normal") hot hatch of the time. Sure the chassis was rubbish, but in terms of engines Opel was at the top of the game back then. They were both good performers as well as frugal compared to competition (helped in no doubt by aerodynamics, as had the class leading Calibra). Then there was the Lotus Omega/Carlton, but that's another story.

With the exception of travesties like the Iron Duke and Olds 350 Diesel, GM has always been a pretty solid engine builder; powerful but conservative and without much flair. The Corvette epitomizes that with its "low-tech" (if titanium valvegear to make up for the OHV setup's fear of revs can be called low-tech...), compact, powerful, and, despite rumblings of LS6s and 7s dropping valves as they age, reliable. Starting with the C4 ZR-1 and moving on through the new small blocks (née LS), the Corvette has had some very good motors.

Didn't the Saturns have a spaceframe chassis with plastic body panels bolted on to it? That surely has to be at least slightly interesting and different.

Yes.... but, it was more like a conventional small-car unibody with unstressed body panels than a Maserati Birdcage, from my limited recollection.

Maybe I'm just confusing interesting with good here.

That is the point of us car enthusiasts!

By the way, can the Volt/Ampera be considered interesting?

Certainyl. I really wanted to see them do well; there is no reason that the Japanese should have a monopoly on bespoke hybrids. The Cadillac ELR was a golden opportunity to sell to the people who are now buying Teslas: the image-conscious luxury buyer. It suffered as a result of some GM image mismanagement as well as some very yellow journalism from the coastal Euro and Japanese apologists. It is a real shame, GM seems to have given up on it a little bit because it hasn't been the hit that they thought it would be.

[Ferrer]

With the exception of travesties like the Iron Duke and Olds 350 Diesel, GM has always been a pretty solid engine builder; powerful but conservative and without much flair. The Corvette epitomizes that with its "low-tech" (if titanium valvegear to make up for the OHV setup's fear of revs can be called low-tech...), compact, powerful, and, despite rumblings of LS6s and 7s dropping valves as they age, reliable. Starting with the C4 ZR-1 and moving on through the new small blocks (née LS), the Corvette has had some very good motors.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the Opel engines of the 80's and 90's weren't just quite good, they were the top of the class both in performance and efficiency.

Were the US GM engine also at the top of the class?

Certainyl. I really wanted to see them do well; there is no reason that the Japanese should have a monopoly on bespoke hybrids. The Cadillac ELR was a golden opportunity to sell to the people who are now buying Teslas: the image-conscious luxury buyer. It suffered as a result of some GM image mismanagement as well as some very yellow journalism from the coastal Euro and Japanese apologists. It is a real shame, GM seems to have given up on it a little bit because it hasn't been the hit that they thought it would be.

I don't think the Volt/Ampera is just a hybrid. It could be a game changer if GM was bothered. I fear though it has been neither marketed nor explained properly.

[f6fhellcat13]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the Opel engines of the 80's and 90's weren't just quite good, they were the top of the class both in performance and efficiency.

I misinterpreted your previous remarkn then.

Were the US GM engine also at the top of the class?

No.

[Ferrer]

There was also the 24v Omega, a 3 litre straight six with 204bhp, at a time when a BMW 530i had only 188bhp and you had to go all the way to a 535i to get a similar power output.

The Opels of the 80's and 90's were quite something. A shame they were diluted into middle off road, average transportation devices.

[pimento]

The bigger issue with the ELR is that it was always considered to be 'just' a Volt in a party frock, at double the price. Early adopters tend to look into the things they're adopting, and from that perspective a Telsa makes a much more exciting choice than 'just another hybrid' at what seems like it might be a ridiculous markup. For the image-conscious, a full electric car will always out do a hybrid. For tech-heads, same deal - if you're going to go electric, dang well go electric. Also, Tesla buyers can likely afford a petrol car for those times when full electric is not an option, so no need for the hybrid. Why opt for the compromised mashup when you can have your cake and eat it too?

[Ferrer]

Diesel not quite as good as it seemed.

France Wants to Discourage Ownership of Diesel Cars, Automakers Protest