Politics

[16-4Veyron]

"Now he will face the justice he denied to millions," Bush said during a five-minute formal television address.

"For the vast majority of Iraqi citizens who wish to live as free men and women, this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever," Bush said.

"This afternoon I have a message for the Iraqi people: You will not have to fear the rule of Saddam Hussein ever again," Bush said, adding a warning. "The capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq."

- quots by George W. Bush, CNN

[crisis]

Originally posted by 16-4Veyron
"Now he will face the justice he denied to millions," Bush said during a five-minute formal television address.

"For the vast majority of Iraqi citizens who wish to live as free men and women, this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever," Bush said.

"This afternoon I have a message for the Iraqi people: You will not have to fear the rule of Saddam Hussein ever again," Bush said, adding a warning. "The capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq."

- quots by George W. Bush, CNN

This is certainly a moral victory and a boost for the people over there, both soldiers and civillians. Unfortunately it will mean little in the way of reduced violence but we all know thats not the point.Hopefully the Iraqui people will get to dish out whatever punishment they deem fit and have some feeling of justice having been done. I hope his incarceration is secure and steadfast enought to prevent breakouts, hostage scenarios etc.

As far as what George Bush says (and Im not one of those who feels compelled to denigrate him at the mere mention of his name) his speeches are all written by others. I can never get the thought from my head, while he is speaking, of the episodes of West Wing or the Tom Clancy novels where you see groups of people agonising over each word and phrase to use and how it will be perceived by every type of audience. Invariably most presidential speeches and addresses sound trite and contrived (which of course they are).

[american muscle]

Thats right, America prevails again. And nobody really uses there on speeches ne more. Quit making excuses to hate Bush. And yeah i am new, but it is a great day for those of us who have been disagreed with about the war...wow what a suprise, the iraqi;s are happy. Who would of thought?

[white devil]

Originally posted by american muscle
Thats right, America prevails again. And nobody really uses there on speeches ne more. Quit making excuses to hate Bush. And yeah i am new, but it is a great day for those of us who have been disagreed with about the war...wow what a suprise, the iraqi;s are happy. Who would of thought?

HAPPY OF WHAT OF PEOPLE COMING AND TAKING THEIR COUNTRY FROM THEM .. They where hapy cause SADAM was cought OFF course they should be hapy he was a bad dectator but what did buch say {WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OFF IRAQI S WEPONS OF DESTRUCTION} and everybody know there is nothing left there anymore and i am prety sure when they wont fin any they will just install some there and say HEY EVERYBODY look there is the wepons of mass and destruction .. OK SADAM IS CAUGHT NOW why dont they leave there country and go out now

[r34_296kw]

Originally posted by white devil
HAPPY OF WHAT OF PEOPLE COMING AND TAKING THEIR COUNTRY FROM THEM .. They where hapy cause SADAM was cought OFF course they should be hapy he was a bad dectator but what did buch say {WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OFF IRAQI S WEPONS OF DESTRUCTION} and everybody know there is nothing left there anymore and i am prety sure when they wont fin any they will just install some there and say HEY EVERYBODY look there is the wepons of mass and destruction .. OK SADAM IS CAUGHT NOW why dont they leave there country and go out now

yes thats tru...only reason america went there was for oil...saddam was just an excuse...its good that saddam will now pay for what he has done but now americans should help iraqis to rebuild iraq and let them choose their own government not the ones chosen by americans...how would the americans feel if some other country came and chose their government and destroyed their country? iraqis are only happy because saddam has been caught...thats the only reason they are happy and why shouldnt they be?

[crisis]

Originally posted by american muscle
Thats right, America prevails again. And nobody really uses there on speeches ne more. Quit making excuses to hate Bush. And yeah i am new, but it is a great day for those of us who have been disagreed with about the war...wow what a suprise, the iraqi;s are happy. Who would of thought?

Maybe I was a little ambiguous, although I thought this was clear enough.(and Im not one of those who feels compelled to denigrate him at the mere mention of his name) . I need to make no excuse to hate Bush because I dont. I am ambivalent in my feelings toward Bush and the US. I am not with my feelings toward those blindly patriotic drones who worship everthing their political leaders do and I am equally not with those who subscribe to the "US is the great white satan" attitiude. For you, Mr. muscle, I empathise with your defensiveness toward everyone who seems to be taking a swipe at the US. If you had read some of my previous comments in this forum you would have seen me defend and question the US with regard to Iraq. I emplore you to read a little more of this thread if you intend to mouth off so that you dont make youself look like an idiot. Being new here is no crime but you will find many of the people that post here are becoming increasingly intolerant of ill infomed or idiotic comments. So be prepared to be dealt with ruthlessly if you want to pick fights. As to White M3s comment about the US leaving Iraq now, no one can really believe that would be advantageous to anyone. Iraq is currently a basket case and even the French and Germans who have contributed nothing, yet gladly peddled their wares, would agree that Iraq is in no condition to be left to the warlords and religious fanatics that would surely jump into the present vacuum that has been created by the baath parties demise. Simplistic is the term for suggestions of that nature.

[r34_296kw]

So be prepared to be dealt with ruthlessly if you want to pick fights. [/B][/QUOTE] does he want a piece of me??? if he does im ready...

[henk4]

It's an illusion to think that the man they found yesterday would have been capable of organising the terrorist acts (or liberation activities depending who is telling about it) that have been going on for a while. He definitely looked like somebody on the run, with no real control any more.
When I listened to the news this morning one of the headlines was that at least 8 people were killed at a bomb attack near Bagdad. This I am afraid will continue. I also saw the speech made by GWB, and those who think he is just reciting what other people write down for him are probably right. When you looked at him you could see that he had difficulties not to smile, and he personally would have probably loved to quote Paul Bremmer: "We got him", but somebody told GW that triumphalism was not called for.
Don't get me wrong here I think it's a good thing that SH has been caught, but from what I heard yesterday I could not derive that there is a concise US plan about what to do next, in a similar way that such a plan was conspiciously absent for what to do after the war.

[american muscle]

Maybe I was a little ambiguous, although I thought this was clear enough.(and Im not one of those who feels compelled to denigrate him at the mere mention of his name) . I need to make no excuse to hate Bush because I dont. I am ambivalent in my feelings toward Bush and the US. I am not with my feelings toward those blindly patriotic drones who worship everthing their political leaders do and I am equally not with those who subscribe to the "US is the great white satan" attitiude. For you, Mr. muscle, I empathise with your defensiveness toward everyone who seems to be taking a swipe at the US. If you had read some of my previous comments in this forum you would have seen me defend and question the US with regard to Iraq. I emplore you to read a little more of this thread if you intend to mouth off so that you dont make youself look like an idiot. Being new here is no crime but you will find many of the people that post here are becoming increasingly intolerant of ill infomed or idiotic comments. So be prepared to be dealt with ruthlessly if you want to pick fights. As to White M3s comment about the US leaving Iraq now, no one can really believe that would be advantageous to anyone. Iraq is currently a basket case and even the French and Germans who have contributed nothing, yet gladly peddled their wares, would agree that Iraq is in no condition to be left to the warlords and religious fanatics that would surely jump into the present vacuum that has been created by the baath parties demise. Simplistic is the term for suggestions of that nature.

I did read almost the whole thread, and trust me i was happy of what u said on the most part. I wansn't talking to u when i was saying the negative things, i was talking to those who were saying negative things bout the US in this thread, once again is wasn;t toward u, and i appreciate your understaind of where i come from, i wasn;t picking a fight either. Although i am not saying i never will. As you know, we are spending A LOt of money over there, and warlords won't be taking it over, it could be a very nice place in a lil while.

[white devil]

ok you are American i dot know how to explain an example on you i will pick my self...

i am Lebanese we have been in a war for 25 years just because america wanted to give Israel a place to put it s ****ing ass in a teretory so where do they go to peacful country that has no wepons...the came to us killed my father was dead because he was buying me a medical when i was sik why?? because they thought he was a terorist {that s all what they can see about people protecting there country} why the hell should they go to Iraq kill people and then say they are terrorist because they are deffending there country ..if somone was attaking you r country will you say hey man {calm it down you can take over my country and we will let you rule it??}is that what you are going to say or you are going to get up and fight for you r country and tradition..WHY THE **** THEY CALL THAT TERRORSIT ATTACK
the sep11 happened do you know why because arabs have no ****ing guns to protect themselves the only way to do so is those attack.. Look i dont feal like talking a have my problems and what is going to happen if America doesnt leave the Iraq is going to end like what happened in lebanon we where fighting with rocks ****ING ROCKs and then they ran away of our country ..People don t know ARABS yet we have NOTHING IN OURE ****ING MINDE if any guy try to take over US we wont surrender untill there wont be anybody left standing on his feet .........
wait and see the result that will hapen if they dont leav there country...one last coment those 12 kids where terrorist WHAT THE **** IS THAT

[BiTurbo]

Originally posted by white devil
ok you are American i dot know how to explain an example on you i will pick my self...

I feel sorry for you and your countrymen, but if America feels threatened (and 9/11 only reinforced their resolve) they will fight. America has the will and ever since WWII the world knows they have the way. They too have lost thousands of innocent civilians in terrorism attacks and they feel they have the justification to take the fight anywhere they see fit - that doesn't make it right - but neither is terrorism.

[white devil]

Originally posted by BiTurbo
They too have lost thousands of innocent civilians in terrorism attacks and they feel they have the justification to take the fight anywhere they see fit - that doesn't make it right - but neither is terrorism.

why dont you take an other look at it since when there was what America calls terrorist attack since it started to attack arab country that have no other way to protect themselves why dont they leave us alone and then see what will arab do {NOTHING they never do anything untill sombody messes up with them} why dont they say what they did with the 12 years old terrorist attack because they think they are the best...
i v been tought one thing in my country treat people as they treat you ..look how they are treating us like DOGS so **** them we only want peace and they know that the know that if they leav us alone they wont have anything but they dont want they want to control over the world and starting by us ... AS LONG AS i have a single breath in my body i will keep on fighting for my country till they ****ing leave us alone would you like sombody to take over you r country for nothing

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Ah saddam is captured, america can go home now!

that's really (In my mind at least) all they were after. they don't need the oil because they have a friendly country willing to give it to them, they don't need the land mass because who wants a big civil mess anyway? And they don't need the moral victory because they already had that with afghanistan.

Americas pride was hurt when saddam was in power, he stood as a bloody great failure of American military tactics and politics, now he's caught, they can rest easy knowing they have that pride back again. This could not have been a better christmas present for the American Army, already battered at home and oversas, they have finally been able to carry out their mission and "Get Him". now they can slowly slip out the exit and let the UN clean up the mess they've left behind.

I actually think it is a great thing that america only acts when provoked, that way they don't seem like the aggresors, they seem like the victims. the same thing happened in WW2. they really couldn't of cared less until Pearl Harbor, then all hell broke loose.

as far as i can see conflict rages on, this is a small victory for the US that has been blown up into the turning of the tide in the WOT. when SH goes on trial in america (people are kidding themselves if they think the Iraqi Coucil or the War Crimes Tribunal will have their case) he will be found guilty and quite possibly gassed, and America will say it was revenge for all the Destruction and death he left behind. One wrong turn desrves another, as the saying goes. Now i am not doubting what he did, but he is a human being too, and thus deserves the same respect as any other human being.

He is another trophy. Simple. America is kidding itself if it thinks this'll clinch it.

[BiTurbo]

Originally posted by IBrake4Rainbows
Ah saddam is captured....

I actually think it is a great thing that america only acts when provoked, that way they don't seem like the aggresors, they seem like the victims. the same thing happened in WW2. they really couldn't of cared less until Pearl Harbor, then all hell broke loose.
(people are kidding themselves if they think the Iraqi Coucil or the War Crimes Tribunal will have their case)......
Now i am not doubting what he did, but he is a human being too, and thus deserves the same respect as any other human being.

Basically you're out of your mind if you think 'SH' is a human being - or maybe you aren't, so it doesn't matter to you if cretins include him in the human species.
He deserves nothing - but the worst.

[crisis]

Originally posted by white devil
if somone was attaking you r country will you say hey man {calm it down you can take over my country and we will let you rule it??}is that what you are going to say or you are going to get up and fight for you r country and tradition..WHY THE **** THEY CALL THAT TERRORSIT ATTACK
the sep11 happened do you know why because arabs have no ****ing guns to protect themselves the only way to do so is those attack.. Look i dont feal like talking a have my problems and what is going to happen if America doesnt leave the Iraq is going to end like what happened in lebanon we where fighting with rocks ****ING ROCKs and then they ran away of our country ..People don t know ARABS yet we have NOTHING IN OURE ****ING MINDE if any guy try to take over US we wont surrender untill there wont be anybody left standing on his feet .........
wait and see the result that will hapen if they dont leav there country...one last coment those 12 kids where terrorist WHAT THE **** IS THAT

Firstly I am sorry to hear of the fate of your father. The US did not invade Iraq as a country but the government and military regime that they felt posed a threat. Weather that can be ultimately justified or not will probably be debated well into the future. But there are clearly many Iraquis who are happy to see Hussien and his govenrment gone. There will also be may who will feel justifiably agrieved with the terrible loss of innocent lives that is occuring even now. It would be refreshing to hear or see the same amount of vitriolic hatred directed at the Iraqui citizens who are killing their countrymen daily in terrorist attacks. They are directing attacks at targets they know to be civillian. The US, despite their mistakes are not. The US has spent a lot of money and a lot of their yong mens lives in the name of freeing and liberating other countries. No one criticised them for being involved in WW1 and 2 even thought the European theatre did not affect them. They were criticised for not intervening in Kosovo and then criticised for every error they made there. There intentions may not be always altruistic but why should they be. If those actions by consequence help others then that should be enough. I have a friend who was forced from Iran under the current regime when his wife was killed by the authorities there and he told me he wished the US did the same to Iran. Everyone has a different agenda.
If you comments about September 11 mean you endorse the acts that took place that day you should be ashamed. Because that act took the lives of thousand of peoples fathers and the repercusions, whether justified or not, have, and will continue to take many more for some time yet.