Cyprus...

[LTSmash]

Ohhhh dear...I didn't know you boys were into stock trading. The RJ has been known to dabble from time to time. Although I primarily see myself as more of an "investor" than a trader. I have bought a few bank shares during the down days relating to Cyprus. Regardless, prepare to be bombarded with stock related threads from here out.

I don't do stock trading. I'm not a fan of the low volatility and the fundamental research for equities is... well... boring. I deal primarily in crude oil derivatives. Lots of leverage, lots of volume and lots of executions. It's far more hands on than the buy and hold type deals that many other investment management firms do with stocks and mutual funds. The YTD performance that we have managed with oil could not even be achieved with equities... but the stress level is through the roof.

[Matra et Alpine]

Morally wrong and never what was intended when markets - financial and physical - were first developed.

It's why the modern world is doomed as we deem making money by gambling is the highest challenge. Designing something new, unique, more effective, lower cost is more "productive".

Sorry LT, but the gambling mindset got us into this last problem and because the governments bailed out and protected the "system" it is destined to happen again
It will likely only be solved when it completely collapses the world economy

discuss

[LTSmash]

Sorry LT, but the gambling mindset got us into this last problem and because the governments bailed out and protected the "system" it is destined to happen again
It will likely only be solved when it completely collapses the world economy

discuss

I know where you're coming from when you say that. In my defense, what we do is not quite gambling in the strictest sense of the word. And our firm is not some powerbank in the back pockets of lawmakers, so we don't have "Too Big To Fail" to back us up. But regulations are there for what we do. And, we're not just throwing darts at a board here; there is a methodical process to what we are doing.

I guess I could give the stock answer everyone says: "I provide liquidity."

[Matra et Alpine]

Every derivatives market is gambling. Just with a little more limits and controls on what is on offer

The "methodical process" though is still based on estimation of what many other potential buyers are wishing to do in their bits and options.

I like my whisky neat and pure, "liquidity" just waters things down.
PRODUCTION roolz .... or it would if the money in "stocks" hadn't now been hijacked as a financial product in it's own right and decisions and actions made to increase "perceived value" in the market rather than true growth/improvement in results that matter.

Whilst I accept that smaller brokers and individuals aren't as "damaging" and the goliaths in the market, but eacn option is a straw on the camels back.

However, "free world" so best wishes.

[LTSmash]

Physical goods are a little bit different on the liquidity front. Yes, what I do is speculation. But many others in the same market are actually hedging prices for long term fluctuations. (i.e. American Airlines, Cargill, FedEx and Exxon are buying and selling the same product to lock in prices for the future so they get a good price that they don't have to pass on to the consumer by raising their* prices. Myself and many others can give them the price they want because we keep the spread small.)

I'm not going to defend this idea of free market principles. Is it a little crooked? Yes. Is it perfect? God no. However, this is my career path at the moment and I'm not taking advantage of anyone or screwing people over like other large financial institutions do. Get in while it's good, get out while I'm hot... then I can pursue my real passion.

[Kitdy]

Get in while it's good, get out while I'm hot... then I can pursue my real passion.

Whittling wooden replicas of 1930s GP cars?

[LTSmash]

Whittling wooden replicas of 1930s GP cars?

As long as it's in a peaceful place far away from where I am right now. I'm just chasing a quiet life.

[Matra et Alpine]

tbh once you get "the quiet life" you then fill it with expensive past times that need even more money. ( 2 horses, 5 cars, 2 full championships, 3 sets of tyres and an A610 engine and restoration screwed this years 'disposable' ) It's the "other Parkinsons law" .... fun activities costs increase to consume the funds available !!

Agree 100% with you LT on the goods (and currency). That's why all these started out. BUT of course "clever" guys working out they could then speculate and never even sniff ( or pay for ) the goods and the corruption began. By the time we're seeing options on the market trends it's immoral. My solution is an easy one ... you can speculate on ANYTHING as long as at some point you do actually pay for it AND you also physically TOUCH it. Then the effort and costs to try to use it a a profiteering vehicle make it ineffective and prevents distortion of the market for those who HAVE to do it for their business

[jcp123]

That's why I'd want to be one of those grey-market goods traders who owns a bar somewhere in Thailand.

For you Trekkies, Quark on DS9 has the kind of business I'd love to have.

[LTSmash]

tbh once you get "the quiet life" you then fill it with expensive past times that need even more money. ( 2 horses, 5 cars, 2 full championships, 3 sets of tyres and an A610 engine and restoration screwed this years 'disposable' ) It's the "other Parkinsons law" .... fun activities costs increase to consume the funds available !!

Ehh, I just want to propose to this person I want to spend the rest of my life with... and live "that kind" of quiet life. South of France or a tropical island; that will do.

[roosterjuicer]

Morally wrong and never what was intended when markets - financial and physical - were first developed.

It's why the modern world is doomed as we deem making money by gambling is the highest challenge. Designing something new, unique, more effective, lower cost is more "productive".

Out of curiosity, is this a common mindset in Europe? I have read a couple articles about the pushback from Europeans on "short sellers" and derivatives trading but I'm more interested in what "normal" people think?

The average American doesn't actually know what it means to short a stock, much less what a derivative is. Idiots on the left are against it and idiots on the right are for it, but neither of them knows why or what exactly they are for or against.

As far as myself. I very rarely short stocks, I only do so when a massive increase seems insane to me. When I do get short, its generally only in small amounts...fun money as it were. As to derivatives, I occasionally purchase options contracts as a hedge, but this is few and far between.

Where I saw it a lot was when I practiced law. I dealt with a lot of livestock litigation. Seemingly unsophisticated farmers were protecting themselves with put and call contracts. Don't judge a book by its cover I suppose.

LT...what exactly do you do?

[LTSmash]

LT...what exactly do you do?

Crude oil's the game, LTSmash is the name. .... I'm an oil trader for a CTA/hedge fund. I handle the high leverage accounts. That's about it... But I'd rather be doing something else. This job is going to give me a heart attack.

[Matra et Alpine]

yep, rooster, but that has to be countered by the demonising of all "bankers" - the media in the UK don't differentiate the good from bad in banking/investing. Headlines are easier by labelling them all the same ! So it is true but skewed by backlash against this current government. London became one of the largest financial market by virtue of the massive banking and insurance companies building massive portfolios to gamble with and using it aggressively ... falling in to the myth Wall St promoted, and caught holding the toxic stuff having been talked in to signing up !!!

In general, in the UK the vast majority don't think it moral to bet on whether a price will be higher - or worse - lower in the future. Equally there is a recognition that "those with money" use the system to profit and the barriers to entry are too high for those who don't/ This is a re-incarnation of the class-system that was being eroded for many decades but the recent support of banks who gambled but not manufacturers who work hard. At times I do think the UK is close to "la revolution" like never seen since the Bastille was stormed

I invest stocks in businesses I believe in and NOT to make a quick buck. Looking for the long term good. Realise that I've "failed" to make a lot of £££ over the years by spotting and sharing trends that could have made money on but my morals limit it.

[henk4]

In general, in the UK the vast majority don't think it moral to bet on whether a price will be higher - or worse - lower in the future.

unless of course the betters put their own money on risk rather than that of the innocent savings account holders....

[Ferrer]

It's now official that deposits over 100k will be levied in Cyprus.

Mr. Jeroen Dijsselbloem (Eurogroup's president) has decided to say that this could be replicated on other European countries.

Result? The Ibex35 has fallen massively.

Things are not looking good.