F-1 Vs supercar

[mee]

i want to ask for your opinion here:

can a road car, in a state of supercar or "hypercar"
can score competitive lap times with an F-1 car
this means for a lap in a racetrack, not road.

F-1 cars are the peak of sophistication and technology
of cars today.

here are the reasons:
have 300+ bhp/litre (900 bhp with 3liter engine)
massive tires
superhigh lateral force (4g, compared to ferrari enzo's 1,5+g)
massive downforce
adjustable settings, for the peak performance for every track
super exotic materials (carbon fibre all-around) and the best
available materials for every part, according to their role
carbon brakes (1,5-2 times better than a supercar's brakes)
super lightweight rims
superslick tires for maximal traction

all those make them to be able to score the best possible time
in a given racetrack.

but there are some payoffs:
they can only use a brake for only one race
tires last only for a few laps (<100km)
brakes are for only one race
only 600km lifetime for a wheel rim
sky-high costs

so is it possible for a supercar to score equally fast
laptime with an F-1 car? given that the supercars can
apply things that are forbidden in F-1 (like active-ride suspension)
but all their parts must last longer than F-1 car's parts.
and they can not be individually set for a given racetrack.

thanks, please reply
P.S: please let me know if i have misplaced this forum, i a m new here

and the supercar i asked about does not have to be in existence, since i only ask if it's possible

[:Exige:]

Welcome to our forums Mee.

Theres is no comparison. Emmision, Noise and Safety laws restrict what a road car can do nowadays .. I'd like to see in how many ways an f1 car would fail an MOT Good question though, I suppose if anyone could do it it would be Gordon Murray.

[Matra et Alpine]

Welcome !

Interesting thought

Problems is an F1 car only transports the driver and is built to minimum weight. It can use aerodynamics to increase downforce and hence grip and corner speed. Street legal cars need to pass SVA regs and wings don't pass. The Deronda F400 designer explained how they had to redeising the front wing/splitter and reduce it's effectiveness to pass SVA

Supercars are designed for a different purpose so until someone does a single-seater supercar with NO comforts it wont' be beaten.

However, you say the F1 brakes only lasts one race, well supercars arent' any batter when they are pushed to do the saem work. Friend got rid of his Ferrari because he had worn half the life of the ROTORS in only 6 trackday sessions !! So if doing ther same laps it looks like they are just as bad as the F1

ALSO, it depends on the track. Some VERY bumpy tracks woudl need the F1 to increase ride height and lose suspension travel and be a NIGHTMARE to handle so could be beaten

[Suka]

Welcome !

Interesting thought

Problems is an F1 car only transports the driver and is built to minimum weight. It can use aerodynamics to increase downforce and hence grip and corner speed. Street legal cars need to pass SVA regs and wings don't pass. The Deronda F400 designer explained how they had to redeising the front wing/splitter and reduce it's effectiveness to pass SVA

Supercars are designed for a different purpose so until someone does a single-seater supercar with NO comforts it wont' be beaten.

However, you say the F1 brakes only lasts one race, well supercars arent' any batter when they are pushed to do the saem work. Friend got rid of his Ferrari because he had worn half the life of the ROTORS in only 6 trackday sessions !! So if doing ther same laps it looks like they are just as bad as the F1

ALSO, it depends on the track. Some VERY bumpy tracks woudl need the F1 to increase ride height and lose suspension travel and be a NIGHTMARE to handle so could be beaten

Yes an SVA inspector would just love all those sharp edges!

[Coventrysucks]

The Ferrari F50 was basically an F1 car for the road, and that is nowhere near its contemarory Ferrari F1 counterpart.

The closest thing to an F1 car on the road would be something like a Radical.
0.8 seconds faster than the Porsche Carrera GT round the Top Gear test track, and that is with a 250bhp 1300cc engine, not much in the way of aerodynamics, and quite a small contact patch for the tyres.

Times from the Le Mans Endurance Series at Silverstone last week:
1st Qualifying session
Zytek 04S 1:34.033
Larbre Ferrari 550 GTS 1:48.355
Vitaphone Saleen S7R 1:48.565
Cirtek Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 1:52.803
JMB Ferrari 360 GT 1:54.040

Kimi Raikkonen's qualifying lap time at Silverstone (pole)
McLaren MP4/19B 1:18.233

So modified supercars are still 30s off the pace of an F1 car.

[RedWingsFanG]

No, supercars will never be equal to a F1.
As stated before, a F1 is just built for one purpose - to be as fast as possible for about a race distance of 300km.
But even during this short race you have to change tyres, fuel etc.
How should that work on an street car?
Supercars will always demand a certain limitation, to make it "useable" in normal life.
Even an Enzo is way slower then the F2004- of course not only the Enzo

[aNOBLEman]

Yes, Supercars will never be close in performance to F1 cars. The engines are one big area of difference. The F1 engines go to 19,000 rpms while most road cars go to 6500-9000 rpms.

[Matra et Alpine]

Yes, Supercars will never be close in performance to F1 cars. The engines are one big area of difference. The F1 engines go to 19,000 rpms while most road cars go to 6500-9000 rpms.

BUT, as supercars are unrestricted in engine size and boost they can provide LOTS more power than an F1.
It's always going to struggle to move the bulk though

[Suka]

BUT, as supercars are unrestricted in engine size and boost they can provide LOTS more power than an F1.
It's always going to struggle to move the bulk though

Yeah, and cutting the air is difficult with SVA restrictions! The bottom edge of the front scuttle on the Libra is as sharp of an edge as they allow for, that is still creating drag.

[aNOBLEman]

BUT, as supercars are unrestricted in engine size and boost they can provide LOTS more power than an F1.
It's always going to struggle to move the bulk though

That's very true, although a very powerful engine needs very good suspension and aerodynamics(proved by the failure[in my opinion]of the Bugatti Veyron).

Also I have a question: What is the SVA?

[Matra et Alpine]

That's very true, although a very powerful engine needs very good suspension and aerodynamics(proved by the failure[in my opinion]of the Bugatti Veyron).

Also I have a question: What is the SVA?

There are going to be Suka's mortal enemy in a few months

In the UK, a vehicle must pass standards before it is permitted on the roads.
These cover the engineering, safety, construction and emissions.
For the big comapnies it's easy, they submit prototypes for test and approval and then all examples are accepted.
BUT if you build a kit car or build your own car from scratch you have to pass
Single Vehicle Approval.

As well as many sensible items it also covers stupid things like how much a switch protrudes from the dash - jsut in case you have your head down their and try to pole your eye out

If building an established kit, it's not too bad as they accept the engineering side of it and concetrate on the construction. If you are building a one-off they can often ask for full engineers reports on strength and stress of chassis.

Here's a typical kit-builders experience - http://home.freeuk.net/chrismb/main4_d.htm

[Suka]

The Libra went through first time (kinda). One of the brake unions was loose. Driving the car to the test centre was ok because it was motorway driving so minimal braking. When the inspector said that the brakes wern't bedded in my dad went off round the test centre pumping the brakes to get some wear on the discs, this emptied the brake master cylinder. The inspector said that he had a brake (excuse the pun) later so if we went away and filled it with fluid and bled the system we could come back in his brake and re-test the brakes with no mention of a re-test fee!

As for my SVA experience with the Luego, that wont be untill next year, the build will be very slow since i have untill Oct 2005. It will however be built by June/August but my Dads friend is friendly with the owner of the local airfield!

[Rijoh]

Clarckson raced in a F50 once against Tiff in a F1 car. The F1 car won, but it was pretty close.
Supercars can be faster in a straight line but never on a racetrack.

[DasModell]

lol .. close . was tiff only using 3 gears ?? . or was in a 1967 f1 car ??

[aNOBLEman]

There are going to be Suka's mortal enemy in a few months

In the UK, a vehicle must pass standards before it is permitted on the roads.
These cover the engineering, safety, construction and emissions.
For the big comapnies it's easy, they submit prototypes for test and approval and then all examples are accepted.
BUT if you build a kit car or build your own car from scratch you have to pass
Single Vehicle Approval.

As well as many sensible items it also covers stupid things like how much a switch protrudes from the dash - jsut in case you have your head down their and try to pole your eye out

If building an established kit, it's not too bad as they accept the engineering side of it and concetrate on the construction. If you are building a one-off they can often ask for full engineers reports on strength and stress of chassis.

Here's a typical kit-builders experience - http://home.freeuk.net/chrismb/main4_d.htm

Thanks for the info Matra. I don't know if we have anything like that in the US but we probably do.