Enthusiast
I was just thinking, wouldn't a rear spoiler on a FWD car be a bad thing? It pushes down on the rear wheels, which doesn't help the car at all (remember, FWD). By pushing down on the rear wheels, wouldn't that lift the front of the car, further hurting aerodynamics and lifting weight off the driving wheels? It also creates drag. Am I mistaken?
Super Moderator
When cornering at speed you want to make sure the rear wheels retain traction so rear wing helps keep some weight down and CAN even be beneficial in keeping them on the deck.Originally Posted by Sweeney921
In rallying the BIG problem with FWD is stopping the damn thing nose-diving over the fast yumps.
Check out the final evolution 205T16s - the BIG rear wing was about trying to make the little slug stay level "in flight".
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
'64
Yes and no.
Very few spoilers actually create negative lift, so they aren't pushing the rear down/ front up at all.
Decreasing lift is desireable as it allows more of the tyres to be in contact with the road, helping handling. Even with a FWD car, the rear tyres are used for cornering.
On hatchbacks and estates the sharp drop off can create a lot of drag. A properly positioned roof spoiler (i.e. like the OEM spoilers you see on things like the Civic Type R, not something some guy has just glued to the back of their car with a prittstick.) will reduce drag, increasing straight line performance and fuel efficiency.
A raised spoiler may help to reduce lift, but will probably increase drag.
Last edited by Coventrysucks; 11-19-2004 at 04:34 PM.
Thanks for all the fish
Enthusiast
LOL, that wing is a monstrosity!
It makes me sound like a fanboy, but my question only applies for straight-line acceleration.
Super Moderator
Then Coverntry's given you the info ( I'd forgotten that in 'normal' use the drag issue's a biggy)
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Novice
Even in that kind of situation there would not be any real negative effects, as when the car takes of (quick acceleration) a lot of weight is trasfered to the rear, but eventually the weight is balanced (less weight on the rear of the car), and during that period the cars speed would not be sufficient enough to crate an enormus downward force on the back of the car.
and plus FWD cars manufactured with a spoiler would have this cind of issue overcome through tuning the suspension and design of car in therms of weight transfer.
Last edited by Need4Speed; 11-20-2004 at 12:37 AM.
“Nothin like da feelin of da pedal 2 da metal”
Fanatic
FWD in general is hindered by its layout in straightline acceleration, the fact that there is weight transfer means they will always be disadvantage for a FWD car. A spoiler is not going to change that regardless. If you are making a circuit racing car, you would be much more inclined to ignore that aspect but gain actual advantage by running a rear wing to help you in the corner.
Now if you are building a dragster, my question is, why bother.....
pushing on a rope anyone....
Enthusiast
aight thanks
Fanatic
One thing about the 205T16.. that was a mid-engined 4WD car.
Super Moderator
yeah, true, but it's weight bias was forward and it pitched nose down even on a clean launch. All FWDs do this too. it was the reason for the rear BIG wing that I brough it up.
If you ever get to see a T16 up close get the back lifted and it's then clear that there is NOTHING behind the rear wheels
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Enthusiast
spoilers on the road usually dont create downforce, cuz actual downforce comes hand in hand with drag
things like the spoilers on the lancer evolution and subaru impreza are designed to "clean up the airflow" as some of you have pointed out, sometimes actually LOWERING drag while lower the lift coefficient
just as in racing the most thing to do to increase downforce while increasing drag minimally is use ground effects, basically a front spoiler to make air go around the car instead of under it, and a rear diffuser to make the air "expand again" creating suction to the road
lowering the car also helps this for obvious reasons
Super Moderator
but not in rally cars on non-tarmac events.
hence the sporouting of wings on stalks to try to stop the 6R4 going in to orbit on every bloody yump
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
The Rotary Authority...
a rear spoiler on a FWD car (or any car for that matter) is usefull on things such as the american freeway or german autobahn, it creates a rear wheel traction bias that aids in high speed stability. making the car less 'twitchy'. this is the only forseeable advantage i can see coming from a large downforce producing wing on a street car or drag car for that matter as cornering traction isnt as big of an issue/is a non issue
UCP's Most Hardcore Burro!
Being human explains everything but excuses nothing
Enthusiast
damn forgot about rallies ...
yeah matra is right since the surface of the road on rally events are continually changing you cannot create a ground effects kit to maximise downforce, in fact sometiems that can lead to even MORE lift from a jump or over a hill when your entire car turns into an aero plane wing (very nasty, just check out the lemans incident)
'64
Very few exist though.
The Ford Escort Cosworth was the first road car with a wing that produced a small ammount of negative lift, and that is massive.
I doubt that any aftermarket wings produce negative lift, unless they are actually tested, but I doubt any manufaturers actually do this.
Thanks for all the fish
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