UK police replacing the Imprezas with Lexus IS-F cruisers

[cargirl1990]

"Pursuit vehicle" and "green" are never going to be in the same sentence.

Yeah a Smart is going to catch a 911

how about a Tesla Roadster? but then again, it still wont catch the criminals.

[NSXType-R]

i'm still more scared of this bad boy

don't know why my attachment isn't working

http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen...08_charger.jpg

That depends on what engine is under the hood. If it's the V6, then there really isn't much to worry about.

[NSXType-R]

"Pursuit vehicle" and "green" are never going to be in the same sentence.

Yeah a Smart is going to catch a 911

You'd be surprised.

Granted, they aren't pursuit vehicles, but the NYPD does have Toyota Priuses and Nissan Altima Hybrids.

[Rasmus]

At a minimum, the police Dodge Charger is probably a Dodge Charger R/T, and it is pretty fast. It can generally run down any car that isn't deemed a super car, and bumping its horsepower by about another 20 - 30 horses is easy and relatively cheap to do. I KNOW, because I have run with chargers, and their acceleration is insane. I won't even go into the Dodge Charger SRT-8--thats another story for another day.

SHP are using R/Ts, and they top out at 150'ish. Regular PD is just the V6. Not trying to be an ass about it either, but the R/Ts are being outrun around here. Not even the SRT8s are that hard to outrun either.

That being said, I'm not the one to run from the PD.

[Matra et Alpine]

You'd be surprised.

Granted, they aren't pursuit vehicles, but the NYPD does have Toyota Priuses and Nissan Altima Hybrids.

Can't say for the NIssan. but having driven one there is NO way a Prius coudl ever be used for pursuit.
Skinny tyres, weight in all the wrong places ?
It woudl be troubled trying to d a PIT maneouver on a granny on a buggy

[G35COUPE]

SHP are using R/Ts, and they top out at 150'ish. Regular PD is just the V6. Not trying to be an ass about it either, but the R/Ts are being outrun around here. Not even the SRT8s are that hard to outrun either.

That being said, I'm not the one to run from the PD.

What is SHP?? Do you mean "State Highway Patrol"?? I was talking about acceleration and not top speed. No doubt some PD will use V-6 Charger versions---maybe to serve warrants or to conduct interstate inmate transfers, etc. However, it is unlikely that the versions they use to hand out tickets on highways are V-6 versions. They are most likely V-8 versions,a nd you can hear that distinct v-8 sound when they pass you.

Finally, please, name the cars you claim are outrunning the R/Ts. And also can you name the cars that beat the SRT-8s that easily?

[Rasmus]

SHP; State Highway Patrol. Let me preface this with saying that I always slow down and stop when a LEO is coming up behind me and flashes the blues. Yes, sometimes I speed, but I'm willing to take the ticket and not endanger anyone's life.

Anyway, the problem for the LEOs is acceleration, not the top speed. They're sitting stationary at the side of the road, or on the grass median. Sometimes they're even going the opposite direction on the highway, in which case they will have an even greater disadvantage.

Let's do this with a real world scenario instead of paper racing. Let's say the R/T is parked in the median, which they usually are. A car flies by doing 100. Now, from a standstill, and under ideal circumstances, it's going to take a stock AWD R/T around 14 seconds to get to 100mph. Assuming the offender stays at 100, he will have moved at least .6 km down the road from the LEO's starting point -- of course the LEO will be further down the road as well, but it's going to be one big gap. Then add the fact that the LEO is starting off on grass, rubble or what have you, and has a car that's seen extra modifications adding weight, and it's not terribly difficult to see where they're losing out. By the time he gets up to a 100, I can almost guarantee you I will be at 150 and climbing in my car. Then again, I don't run. My point is, the initial gap is what will allow offenders to get away. No, Chargers are not more intimidating than the Crown Vics in that regard. No, you can't outrun radio, but unless it's a sting there won't be another LEO close by.

We have quite a few of what we call "Mexico cars", and they're all quite capable of outrunning the SHP. Amongst those are stock and modified C6 Z06s, Terminator Cobras and GTOs. As for actual stories about cars outrunning the PD, I know of two stock Terminators that each outran a SHP Charger R/T on two separate occasions in two different states. One happened as late as last week at Mustang Week in Myrtle Beach. Then comes the modified cars. Heck, even an S2000 can outrun the SHP. I've been told by a LEO that one up in Durham has done so on three separate occasions.

If you want to talk acceleration, a stock Charger SRT8 does a mid'ish to high 13 second quarter mile on my local track; Fayetteville Motorsports Park. I've only seen a 13.6 as the fastest, but I know that under ideal circumstances they're capable of 13.3's. On the other hand, I was in the low 13's with my at the time close to stock, naturally aspirated Mustang GT. All I had was a $400 CAI and tune -- here's a link to a 13.2 slip: http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3513/132435slip.png.

If you want to talk stock cars that will easily beat an SRT8, I suggest you look at any of the C6 Vettes, a C5 Z06, the Goats, any of the old LS1 Camaros or Firebirds, the new Camaro SS, a Shelby GT500, or a Termi. Most of them are 12 second cars stock, and several are much cheaper than the SRT8. Mildly modified there are lots of cars that will outrun it. The 350Z with a CAI springs to mind.

While I was still NA, my experience taught me that I would happily run any Charger, Challenger, 350Z, Cobalt, Skittle or LT1 at the track. LS1 too if it didn't sound like it had cams done. I would actually be more worried if the trunk badge said SRT4, than if it said SRT8.

Again, I'm not trying to stir up any shit here, but with Chargers the LEOs are still losing. And an SRT8 badge doesn't really mean all that much.

[Kitdy]

What the hell is a Skittle Rasmus?

[Rasmus]

Skittle is an SRT4. They're small, round, and come in all sorts of bright colors.

WRX; Scooby. 240; kouki. GTO; Goat. LS1; oh damn. LT1; oh lulz.

[Clivey]

Can I just point something out? The Police don't have to have pursuit cars with better acceleration than the crims in order to catch them.

The average pursuit car in the UK is a Volvo V70 T5. There are loads of cars that can beat the Volvo's 0-60 (6.6 seconds, more when the Volvo is loaded with Police kit), but none that can beat the speed of the short wave radio used to tell the unit up the road to set-up a stinger.

[G35COUPE]

SHP; State Highway Patrol. Let me preface this with saying that I always slow down and stop when a LEO is coming up behind me and flashes the blues. Yes, sometimes I speed, but I'm willing to take the ticket and not endanger anyone's life.

Anyway, the problem for the LEOs is acceleration, not the top speed. They're sitting stationary at the side of the road, or on the grass median. Sometimes they're even going the opposite direction on the highway, in which case they will have an even greater disadvantage.

Let's do this with a real world scenario instead of paper racing. Let's say the R/T is parked in the median, which they usually are. A car flies by doing 100. Now, from a standstill, and under ideal circumstances, it's going to take a stock AWD R/T around 14 seconds to get to 100mph. Assuming the offender stays at 100, he will have moved at least .6 km down the road from the LEO's starting point -- of course the LEO will be further down the road as well, but it's going to be one big gap. Then add the fact that the LEO is starting off on grass, rubble or what have you, and has a car that's seen extra modifications adding weight, and it's not terribly difficult to see where they're losing out. By the time he gets up to a 100, I can almost guarantee you I will be at 150 and climbing in my car. Then again, I don't run. My point is, the initial gap is what will allow offenders to get away. No, Chargers are not more intimidating than the Crown Vics in that regard. No, you can't outrun radio, but unless it's a sting there won't be another LEO close by.

We have quite a few of what we call "Mexico cars", and they're all quite capable of outrunning the SHP. Amongst those are stock and modified C6 Z06s, Terminator Cobras and GTOs. As for actual stories about cars outrunning the PD, I know of two stock Terminators that each outran a SHP Charger R/T on two separate occasions in two different states. One happened as late as last week at Mustang Week in Myrtle Beach. Then comes the modified cars. Heck, even an S2000 can outrun the SHP. I've been told by a LEO that one up in Durham has done so on three separate occasions.

If you want to talk acceleration, a stock Charger SRT8 does a mid'ish to high 13 second quarter mile on my local track; Fayetteville Motorsports Park. I've only seen a 13.6 as the fastest, but I know that under ideal circumstances they're capable of 13.3's. On the other hand, I was in the low 13's with my at the time close to stock, naturally aspirated Mustang GT. All I had was a $400 CAI and tune -- here's a link to a 13.2 slip: http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3513/132435slip.png.

If you want to talk stock cars that will easily beat an SRT8, I suggest you look at any of the C6 Vettes, a C5 Z06, the Goats, any of the old LS1 Camaros or Firebirds, the new Camaro SS, a Shelby GT500, or a Termi. Most of them are 12 second cars stock, and several are much cheaper than the SRT8. Mildly modified there are lots of cars that will outrun it. The 350Z with a CAI springs to mind.

While I was still NA, my experience taught me that I would happily run any Charger, Challenger, 350Z, Cobalt, Skittle or LT1 at the track. LS1 too if it didn't sound like it had cams done. I would actually be more worried if the trunk badge said SRT4, than if it said SRT8.

Again, I'm not trying to stir up any shit here, but with Chargers the LEOs are still losing. And an SRT8 badge doesn't really mean all that much.

1. You use a lot of fancy words. What is a LEO?? By the way, thanks for the response.

2. Why are you raising a hypothetical situation about the police staying on grass and all what not?? Most people will slow down when the see the blue light. So your hypothetical story is just as even or as incredible as my hypothetical assertion about people slowing down. I wasn't asking you about some hypothesis. I was asking you about facts---from a stand still, which is also hypothetical, how many cars will outrun a Dodge R/T?.

3. What is a "Mexico car"???? I can't beleive I am hearing all these new terms eventhough we live in the same country. I must be living under a rock or a very secluded cave.

4. The GTO is probably on the same level as the Dodge SRT-8, and both are one step ahead of the Dodge R/T. A stock Z06 and GT500, are one step ahead of the Dodge SRT-8 and GTO. Each of these cars has at least a 5.7 Litre or a 6.2L V-8 engine in them, and taken together, are all mostly faster than the Dodge R/T---more horsepower and torque in most cases. So, you are comparing apples to oranges here. And how many of these cars do you really see running around our highways everyday???? Very few to warrant any remarks on them being associated with cops pulling them over.

5. All the smaller cars you talked about in your story (S2000), if true, probably had forced induction systems. As a naturally aspirated car, which of the small cars you metioned is capable of matching the Charger R/T one-on-one???? Using an S2000 as an example is really fishy and suspect. An S2000, has so little torque that it is laughable. Do you ever wonder why it has to rev up to 8000 - 9000 rpm to stay in a real race???

6. Your quartermile numbers for an SRT-8, is even more suspect and troubling. A stock charger SRT-8 will do a quarter mile most likely in less time, on a good day or if it is functioning properly. Mid to high 13s is the time a mildly modified G-37 or a stock 370Z will easily achieve.

7. I don't need the link. I already know that a lightly modified Mustang GT will do a mid to low 13s on the quarter mile. Its performance is at par with the performance of a stock Nissan 370Z.

8. Again, you make very suspect comments. A Z06 and a GT500 are on a level or step higher than a Dodge SRT-8. Again, you compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the C6 vette or their 2009 LT1 and LT2 versions, may be on the same level as the Dodge SRT-8. And by the way, the power-to-weight ratio of the Vette (this means the vette is lighter than the Charger) is always going to be better than that of the Charger. Charger weighs about 4,000 pounds while the Vette weighs about 3,100 pounds. So, the weight advantage the vette has, is painfully obvious. Less weight, better acceleration.

9. A lightly modified 350Z will struggle hard to make it to the high 13s on the quartermile. I know because the engine in my car is the VQ35DE engine, same as that in the early generation 350Zs. This result gets better with 350Zs that have the VQ35HR engines.

10. Again, your final comments worry me a great deal. Why would you take Dodge SRT-4 over a Chevy Cobalt SS??? The Dodge SRT-4 is prone to lag because it uses a turbo, and the Chevy SS Cobalt is generally free of lag because it uses a supercharger. In fact, the turbo lag in the SRT-4 is so bad that i was amazed at how good the turbo in the Mazda Speed 3 really is. And by Turbo, in the Dodge SRT-4, do you mean stage 1 turbo??

I personally ran a Dodge SRT-4 prior to modifications in my car and i was surprised at how slow it was in picking speed, and yet it was suspiciously hailed as king of small cars. If I had the modifications I have in my car today, then, it wouldn't even be close. Try running a Chevy Cobalt SS and it will hand you your behind without even a blink. A stock Chevy Cobalt SS will spank a Mustang GT without breaking a sweat. Even a stock Corvette has to work relatively hard to beat a Chevy Cobalt SS, on a bad day.

11. Contrary to your comments, the GT500, the Z-06, and the base Vette LT1 and LT2 versions are all more expensive than the Dodge SRT-8, by at least $10, 000 or more.

12. The V-8 Camarro is a complete slouch. It has about the same performance numbers as the Ford Mustang GT and the Nissan 370z, eventhough it has a lot more horsepower under the hood. The V-6 Camaro version seems to be a better performer than the V-8 version. Frankly, the V-8 Camarro and the Pontiac G8 GT, are about the worst performing muscle cars GM has ever made because of their unnecessary heavy weight, though they look great in person.

13. And for the record, I have run with most of these cars and so I am giving you first hand information.

14. Finally, how many people do you think can afford a Z06 or a GT500 that can technically outrun a Police Dodge R/T or a Dodge SRT-8 under almost any condition?? Are these cars so common in your area, which i doubt they are, that you speak of them as if they are taxi cabs?? I was asking you for daily drivers that can outrun a Police Dodge Charger R/T, since most cars on the road are daily drivers. I still haven't gotten a convincing response from you.

[Matra et Alpine]

Can I just point something out? The Police don't have to have pursuit cars with better acceleration than the crims in order to catch them.

To operate the UK "box" system they do need cars that can match acceleration of the crims.

The average pursuit car in the UK is a Volvo V70 T5.

2 things imho ....
1. The T5 is a capable handling and performing car.Been 4 up in a T5 with a professional race driver on a trackday and also had the "pleasure" of being taken for a drive in a police old style T5 years back. ( and NO, it was in the front seat NOT the back )
2. It's the driver that makes the difference

radio I agree, but only if you can keep "eyes on".

[wwgkd]

I'd just like to point out that there is a problem with lighter wieght cars, and cars with no back seats as regular police cars. Light weight cars can't pit very well since they take quite a bit of damage, and that's something that chargers do very well. Police versions have taken an incredible amount of abuse including running over stuff that would total a Z06. Also, having a back seat is nice for when you actually need to arrest someone. Very few times in the course of a police officers career does he actually need to chase down a Z06 or terminator cobra or the like. Quite often they do have to haul someone in for drunk and disorderly.

[coolieman1220]

when i drive 95 thru NC, i use my V1 and catch nothing. the roads are sooo horrible doing 150 is incredibly dangerous on those bumpy roads.

prius is only used by traffic enforcemnt agents, not NYPD cops

[Rasmus]

Part 1/3

1. You use a lot of fancy words. What is a LEO?? By the way, thanks for the response.

You're welcome. I enjoy a discussion as much as anyone. A LEO is a Law Enforcement Officer. English is not my primary or secondary language, so thank you for noticing my terribly fancy words.

2. Why are you raising a hypothetical situation about the police staying on grass and all what not?? Most people will slow down when the see the blue light. So your hypothetical story is just as even or as incredible as my hypothetical assertion about people slowing down. I wasn't asking you about some hypothesis. I was asking you about facts---from a stand still, which is also hypothetical, how many cars will outrun a Dodge R/T?.

First off, this thread was about faster than average police vehicles , and not general performance characteristics of a family 4-door saloon. It seems like I have struck a nerve with you for not being impressed by the R/Ts.

Secondly, the situation described is is not a hypothetical situation. This is the situation here in NC in which people can get away, simply because the LEO from a starting point is at a severe disadvantage.

The point I tried to make to you, was that it doesn't matter if it's a Crown Vic or a Charger R/T. Neither is fast enough to catch the people in fast cars who know radar has been on them when they were going 100mph, and have subsequently decided to run. They are long gone by the time the LEO gets up to speed. The gap is simply too big for the police vehicle in pursuit to catch up. If you fail to consider this, we cannot continue this part of the discussion.

Now as for the psychological aspect of being pursued by the police, yes, most people of course will slow down and pull over. Some, however, will not even see the lights.

Since the main focus of the thread has turned, to make it easier for the mods, I split the second part of my answer into separate posts.