Idea for a racing formula

[Kooper]

I saw the thread on Group B and got all nostalgic. Not about Group B (well, I did actually), but Group C.

I was a bit young at the time, but I have fond memories of a poster of a Sauber C18 I think. Don't know if it ever won anything, but it just looked so darn right!

Got me thinking, wouldn't it be pretty cool to have a closed-wheel formula in much the same vein as F1? Think about it.

Closed wheel, closed cockpit , intended for approx. 1-hour of racing, 10-seconds-or-less pitstops, truly international racing events...

Now some of you might say "but we already have ALMS and Le Mans and GT events etc.", but that's not what I'm thinking here. I'm thinking specifically designed, or adapted, pinnacle-of-closed-wheel racing machines competing all over the world.

All these types of races I know of are more tilted towards endurance and aren't really global events. Nothing wrong with that, but what about the fans wanting to see intense-pressure sprint-racing that doesn't end after just 15 laps, featuring some of the best race-drivers from around the world and do not want to necessarilly watch F1? Heck, this could be an indirect competing formula to F1.

Think it could work? In other words, if a formula like this existed and you had a choice of buying tickets to an F1 race or a race based on a formula as discussed above, which one would you go see?

[lightweight]

There are many factors to consider here.
First of all is there a market for such a championship?
Make the cars too fast and such a league will be positioned too close to F1.
Make them too slow and there will be no reason for introducing the championship in the first place.

My notion is that open wheeled race cars are perceived to be as "fast". The fact that they are open wheeled makes them look raw, ballsy racers. So that is why I believe that non endurance championships (could I use the term "sprint" championships here?) will be open-wheeled.

Introducing a closed-wheel non endurance event will go against the above.

Of course this doesn't mean that it cannot succeed. Just that up until now, noone believed that it would be successful.

[Kooper]

I suppose you have a very good point there. Why doesn't something like this already exist if someone else didn't think it was a good idea?

I still think it would be pretty cool to have something like it. Imagine it, Le Mans squished into 1 hour of all-out racing!

Ah yes, if only.

[Kooper]

Why?

Sorry if I offended somehow, not intended. I'll just stop posting now.

[Zytek_Fan]

Why?

Sorry if I offended somehow, not intended. I'll just stop posting now.

Nah. Nevermind. We have had a problem with multiple accounts lately. Thanks for being honest

[Kooper]

No problem. This wasn't spurred on by a certain "deadly_phoenix" by any chance, was it?

[motorsportnerd]

The idea posted above for a closed wheel near-F1 standard racing formula with sprint type races has merits, and has in fact been tried in similar ways in the past.
At the end of the Group C era in the early 1990s, the World Sportscar Championship adopted 3.5 litre naturally aspirated engines built to F1 regulations as the engine format. The engines were F1 engines tuned to enable them to last in the long distance races that made up the World Sportscar Championship. Toyota, Jaguar, Mercedes, Nissan and Peugeot built cars with these F1 engines and the 1991 season was one of the best as a result. However, with so many manufacturers involved and with F1 style engines, costs went through the roof. The F1 engine rule resulted in the end of the World Sportscar Championship at the end of 1992 as manufacturers left in quick order. Peugeot did join F1 itself as an engine supplier after the World Sportscar Championship ended - first with McLaren, then with Jordon.
Earlier, during the 1987 season, Bernie Eccelstone had a proposal for the new at that time World Touring Car Championship to use radical rules. The result was "Procar", which was for closed body cars with the body of a production car (ie: an Alfa 164) a racing chassis and an F1 engine of either 1.5 litres Turbocharged or 3.5 litres normally aspirated. The races would've been sprint style events. Each manufacturer would've had two cars, there would've been two sprint races at each round and F1 drivers were going to be encouraged to compete. The series was to start in 1988 and replace the Group A touring car rules. Imagine it: an Alfa Romeo 164 with a 1.5 litre tubo-charged F1 engine developing over 800 bhp and a racing F1-style chassis to help keep it on the road. And no downforce to speak of. The cars sounded like they would be devestatingly quick, extraordinarily difficult to drive and would've looked and sounded spectatular. Alfa Romeo was the only manufacturer to commit to the idea - and went as far as building a prototype using a 164 body shell. The other manufacturers wer put off by the cost. Only sensible decision - these cars would've been insane - and quite possibly dangerous.
Anyway, Ecclestone's Procar idea is very close in concept to what is proposed above - the only difference being that it would've been for cars with the body shells of saloons rather than sports-prototype racers.
I'll try to find a picture of the Alfa 164 Procar.

[motorsportnerd]

Link here to the Alfa 164 Procar: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...hp&carnum=1205

[Kooper]

Pity WSC ended. I never got to see it, but it sure sounds like it was interesting. I guess one of the biggest problems would be to generate as great an interest in something like this as enjoyed by F1.

[Zytek_Fan]

Pity WSC ended. I never got to see it, but it sure sounds like it was interesting. I guess one of the biggest problems would be to generate as great an interest in something like this as enjoyed by F1.

FIA Sportscar Championship was decent but it wasn't enough. Good thing LMS formed after the demise of FIA Sportscar Championship

[Kooper]

Link here to the Alfa 164 Procar: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...hp&carnum=1205

That's almost as insane as Renault's Espace F1! Would have loved to see it race though!

Thanks for the link motorsportnerd!

[motorsportnerd]

.
Imagine it: an Alfa Romeo 164 with a 1.5 litre tubo-charged F1 engine developing over 800 bhp and a racing F1-style chassis to help keep it on the road. And no downforce to speak of.

Well, from the ultimatecarpage link looks like Alfa planned to use a normally aspirated 3.5 litre V10. But my memory is that 1.5 litre Turbos from the turbocharged F1 era were also going to be permitted. And some may remember the BMW 1.5 turbo engines were producing over 1200bhp in qualifying. The Procars wouldn't have had that - they would have had restrictors on the turbos. Even allowing for the restrictors a 1.5 turbo F1 engine in a saloon body was a radical idea.

[.M.]

I suppose you have a very good point there. Why doesn't something like this already exist if someone else didn't think it was a good idea?

Well I don't know if someone already said anything about this above after you mentioned this but here it is, I think it would be too expensive. The reason being is very straight forward -> heat and obviously cost issues. LeMans cars generate immense amounts of heat and are extremely costly to maintain. Replicating a sport with the design almost like Lemans shouldnt even be attempted. If it were attempted, costs would be talked and debated about more than we have seen in F1 today. Now there is nothing wrong with seeing a new racing sport come about, but with todays society sticking to what they know (F1 and the like) and the childrens attention span reduced to zero, without there being spinning rims on these cars or rap music being played, the life of a sport like that will surely die, which is what I sense will happen with that Drifting Championship that was started in Japan and continued over to NA. I could be wrong because there is another Fast and the Furious movie coming out (all about drifting with plenty of 'NOS' and losers who have part-time jobs with 100,000 sports cars-gimme a break) and is sure to focus the kids eyes on the racing series.

So if you know of a movie that is going to be created with your ideas, then your dreams are coming true, if not then I guess we can all hope and pray that the kids will use common sense when hooking 'NOS' to their cars and not drift off a mountain

[pimento]

I don't mind if they drift off a mountain, as long as they don't hit anyone else on the way down. One less idiot on the roads!

[.M.]

or off the roads