2009 Ford Focus ST [XR5T]

[Kitdy]

SH-AWD is basically FWD-biased AWD, IIRC.

I seem to recall it being able to shift as much as 90% of the torque to the front or back wheels if needed. I have had the pleasure of being inside my friend's mother's RL quite a few times and scoping out the car in general. There is a graphic in the driver's console showing at all times where torque is being sent.

[NSXType-R]

Its probably not selling because of the above reasons AND its too F#^king expensive.

Yeah, it starts at 45K here. That's way too expensive. If it had more power, maybe. Not as it is now though.

I seem to recall it being able to shift as much as 90% of the torque to the front or back wheels if needed. I have had the pleasure of being inside my friend's mother's RL quite a few times and scoping out the car in general. There is a graphic in the driver's console showing at all times where torque is being sent.

I think you're right, but I'm not sure.

[syko]

2009 Focus st

They have pushed the power up to 260hp, which gives it a 0-100kph of 5.5 s.
Also the upgrades can be fitted to current model Focus st's.

[aNOBLEman]

I seem to recall it being able to shift as much as 90% of the torque to the front or back wheels if needed. I have had the pleasure of being inside my friend's mother's RL quite a few times and scoping out the car in general. There is a graphic in the driver's console showing at all times where torque is being sent.

It also has the ability to shift the torque to the outside wheels while turning to reduce understeer. That's the main advertising point for the Super Handling-AWD.

[culver]

If you look at the details of the Honda system in the RL it's actually quite fascinating. The defacto standard in soft road AWD systems is to basically gear the front wheels to the transmission and engine (ie if the engine turns and the car is in gear the front axle must turn). Power is sent to the rear dif via some type of coupling that allows slippage. In the older systems this was simply a viscous coupling. Later the engineers got fancier and added computer controlled clutches or other systems. Regardless of how they work, they all do about the same thing, they send power to the rear wheels and allow some amount of slippage so the front and rear axles can spin at different speeds.

As a side note, this is not how a more traditional AWD system such as the full time Jeep and Land Rover AWD systems and the old school Audi Quatro systems work. They sent power to a center dif which then split the power off for the front and rear axles.

Back to the RL. It's a bit different than the soft roader system I just described. It basically has no "center dif" and really doesn't even have a rear dif. Instead sends the power to what might be considered a spool where the rear dif would normally be. Instead of a rear dif, each axle is connected to the spool via a computer controlled clutch pack. Now each rear wheel can be allowed to slip or not slip via the commands of the computer controlling the two clutch packs. To send more power to one wheel the computer simply tells the clutch pack to allow less slippage (more lock) for that one wheel. In a sense, Honda replaced a slipper type coupling and rear dif with two computer controlled slipper type couplings (the clutch packs). It really is a pretty neat system.

That said, its construction and the layout of the powertrain is much like a traditional FWD car rather than a traditional RWD car with added power to the front wheels (ie, BMW, Cadillac, MB, Infinity). Audi has traditionally be somewhere in the middle. There cars are built like FWD cars with the engine in front of the front axle but the power flow is not like the traditional soft roader AWD systems. It is more like a traditional full time 4WD system.

[culver]

PS: I really do wish we got more Euro Fords over hear. I like the Mustang and the trucks and all but the euro Ford sedans and hatches are just so good. Heck, all the Fords I've ever owned are Euro Ford based (Fiesta, Contour SVT). The SVT is part of the reason I like Ford cars.

[fpv_gtho]

Instead of a rear dif, each axle is connected to the spool via a computer controlled clutch pack. Now each rear wheel can be allowed to slip or not slip via the commands of the computer controlling the two clutch packs. To send more power to one wheel the computer simply tells the clutch pack to allow less slippage (more lock) for that one wheel. In a sense, Honda replaced a slipper type coupling and rear dif with two computer controlled slipper type couplings (the clutch packs). It really is a pretty neat system.

Well that would still be a differential. A diff simply has to allow each wheel to spin at different speeds whilst recieving power.

[Clivey]

OK, this facelift really doesn't work IMO. The headlights don't match the lines of the rest of the car (which is a box). Ford have really messed-up with the Mk2 Focus. Interior quality is terrible, along with the ride quality and the looks. And why's it so damn big compared to other cars in its class? It feels unwieldy down a British B-road compared to the GM Astra or VW Golf.

[syko]

. Interior quality is terrible, along with the ride quality and the looks. And why's it so damn big compared to other cars in its class? It feels unwieldy down a British B-road compared to the GM Astra or VW Golf.

Sorry but I disagree with everything you just said. The facelift improves the interior to a similar standard to a the 2008 mondeo, I like the current models looks very much and more so than the facelift but its far from terrible or ugly. And as for size I can't comment and what a astra or golf feels like but the current focus doesn't feel unweldly, though it does have quite a lot of boot space and rear leg room. I have no idea what a british B road looks like but on a aussie B road it feels very fun to drive due to its cornering ability.

[Clivey]

Sorry but I disagree with everything you just said. The facelift improves the interior to a similar standard to a the 2008 mondeo, I like the current models looks very much and more so than the facelift but its far from terrible or ugly. And as for size I can't comment and what a astra or golf feels like but the current focus doesn't feel unweldly, though it does have quite a lot of boot space and rear leg room. I have no idea what a british B road looks like but on a aussie B road it feels very fun to drive due to its cornering ability.

Where are the pictures of the "facelifted" interior? if they haven't drastically changed the instrument panel, centre console and armrests it's still going to be the same old rattly, squeaky and greasy rubbish I came across in the 2006 Focus.

As for the looks, I stand by what I said. I find the Focus bland in the extreme, and sticking on a set of mismatched lights and a new bumper isn't going to make it cool. Not by a long shot. At least the Mk1 was "different".

And for the comments on size - they only really apply to the European market because of the "space premium" here. Everyone else can just ignore them!

The Focus has a good 1.6-litre diesel (the same as in my C4) and good roadholding, but the steering wheel is inert around the first few degrees of turn, the gearshift has such a long throw that it feels like a Transit van and the ride isn't upto the standards set by other cars in the class. Yes, the boot may be big but that's because the car is longer and much taller than an Astra or Golf (and that is problematic in Europe).

[Ferrer]

I have to disagree on the styling. After a seriously bland Mk2a the Mk2b is certainly welcomed with its modern lines. Of course it's not as good as an original Mk1a (we had one) but well you can't do miracles either.

About the size you're spot on Clive. It's way too big not for lenght or height (there are taller C-segment cars) but for the width which if I'm not mistaken is 1,84m, almost as much as an Audi A6.

[Clivey]

I have to disagree on the styling. After a seriously bland Mk2a the Mk2b is certainly welcomed with its modern lines. Of course it's not as good as an original Mk1a (we had one) but well you can't do miracles either.

Well yeah, the facelift makes the front look better but it doesn't match the rest of the car and it's still not attractive IMO.

About the size you're spot on Clive. It's way too big not for lenght or height (there are taller C-segment cars) but for the width which if I'm not mistaken is 1,84m, almost as much as an Audi A6.

Precisely, driving on local country roads felt like trying to thread an ocean liner through someone's letterbox. A Focus or competitor shouldn't feel like that. Having said that though, I tried to fit my C4 in the garage the other day - I won't be doing that often! You have to move the car forwards and backwards, shuffling it sideways to be able to open the door on the inside of the garage! It's not even an old garage (5-years). The Corsa's in there now.

[culver]

Well that would still be a differential. A diff simply has to allow each wheel to spin at different speeds whilst recieving power.

Not in the same way as a classical gear differential. What we classically call a differential has a very specific kinematic property. The average speed of the two output shafts is equal to the rotational speed of the differential body. So if the inside wheel slows, the outside wheel must speed up. If the dif body is spinning at say 50rpm and one wheel is on ice while the other is stationary then the one on ice will spin at 100rpm. The average wheel rpm is still 50. While a LSD generally will not allow a single wheel to stall, the average speed of the two output shafts is still the same as the speed of the dif body.

With the double slipper clutch arrangement things are different. The wheels can never spin faster than the "dif body" or spool as I referred to it before. There is no set mathematical relationship between the speed of the spool and the two axles beyond the dif can't spin the axles faster than it's own speed. The axles could under a free wheeling condition spin faster than the spool.

You are right that this setup serves the purpose of a differential and allows both power to flow to the wheels and the wheels to spin at dissimilar speeds. However, it also is different because it doesn't have the kinematics of a gear differential.

[fpv_gtho]

The differentials you seem more familiar with are simply of a mechanical operation rather than electronically controlled. These newer systems may even be put down as variable diff's.

[Cotterik]

I dont understand why anyone would buy this when the RS is being released.