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Old 05-12-2004, 12:27 AM
bige321786 bige321786 is offline
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may rattle a few cages, but....

Which is worse, beheading an innocent civilian or making terrorist
scum pretend they are the back-up dancers at a Madonna concert? It seems as if the United States is the only country in the world that is capable of provoking international outrage. I think the world hates us because they know we won. Our combination of economic, social, and political freedom has proved to be the secret formula for international domination in every aspect of life everywhere and people hate us for it. Throw fire bombs at the American tank in your Tommy t-shirt and have a Big-Mac for lunch and go to bed hating everything American. My uncle once said that Americans are like the Yankees, everyone hates them but would love to be a fan
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bige321786
Which is worse, beheading an innocent civilian or making terrorist
scum pretend they are the back-up dancers at a Madonna concert? It seems as if the United States is the only country in the world that is capable of provoking international outrage. I think the world hates us because they know we won. Our combination of economic, social, and political freedom has proved to be the secret formula for international domination in every aspect of life everywhere and people hate us for it. Throw fire bombs at the American tank in your Tommy t-shirt and have a Big-Mac for lunch and go to bed hating everything American. My uncle once said that Americans are like the Yankees, everyone hates them but would love to be a fan
Your right. It will rattle a few cages. The psychos who beheaded the US citizen are the type who relish any opportunity for brutality. People will say that the actions of the US soldiers towards their prisoners caused it and in this particular case it may be so. Those maniacs would have existed anyway and would have no doubt perpertrated some hideous act at some stage. No balanced sane individual, no matter what motivation, could physically cut off the head of an innocent (or guilty) person.
Americans and other Westerners in Iraq and Arab countries will still be targetted but their fate may now be even more precarious now that those photos have been shown around the world.
As far as being jealous of Americans, you are probably partially correct. Some of these extremists may be jealous of the lifestyles of Westerners and hide behind self righteous claims to religious adherence. It is also a good point about eating big macs. I find it amusing to see people who protest against the US, as though its a physical entity, while sucking down a Coke or playing protest songs on their Fender guitars.
In the end, though, if your country wants to take the high moral ground they must ensure that they are themselves beyond reproach. Torturing prisoners go against the ideals that Americans claim so proudly. ( and justice for all).
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:49 AM
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With your strict censorship regulations I would not call your's a free society.
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Old 05-12-2004, 01:13 AM
fpv_gtho fpv_gtho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bige321786
Which is worse, beheading an innocent civilian or making terrorist
scum pretend they are the back-up dancers at a Madonna concert? It seems as if the United States is the only country in the world that is capable of provoking international outrage. I think the world hates us because they know we won. Our combination of economic, social, and political freedom has proved to be the secret formula for international domination in every aspect of life everywhere and people hate us for it. Throw fire bombs at the American tank in your Tommy t-shirt and have a Big-Mac for lunch and go to bed hating everything American. My uncle once said that Americans are like the Yankees, everyone hates them but would love to be a fan

That civilian was beheaded because of the pictures released showing how the Iraqi prisoners have been treated, the people responsible were trying to make an example to the US. What does Bush do? He puts the blame on the media, saying thats what happens then the media leaks photo's out.......

Anyway, putting all that aside, if anyone had a major problem with the US, i could only put it down to their attitude towards issues. They may have economical, social and political freedom, but i think they let their power go to their heads. They are undoubtedly the holder of the most nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction in the world, and although they are content on reducing the number of weapons other countries hold, what are they doing to reduce the number they themselves have? It would be a great feeling worldwide if we could wake up and not have the threat of nuclear, chemical or biological warfare around us whenever 2 countries have a disagreement, and although the US are working towards that, i think they would get there alot quicker if they didnt leave themselves as the last step. Put yourselves in North Korea's and other roque nation's shoes for a minute, and just think. How would you feel, if a mega power was telling you to get rid of all your WOMD's yet they themselves were going to stand still? You would only agree when theres some sort of mutual interaction where both parties are prepared to disarm.
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Old 05-12-2004, 01:20 AM
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i will agree the beheading of innocent civilians is wrong, so very, very wrong but what your soldiers did (i'm assuming your american at this point for reasons i care not to discuss) is disgusting. i can't even begin to imagine how violated and tormented I would feel if those things were done to me. these are members of a strict Islamic society and probably now see themselves degraded in allah's eyes. Those soldiers shouldn't be court marshalled, they should be in Nuremberg charged with war crimes or better still put in a small room with their mistreated prisoners with no weapons and minimal clothing and then we'll see what happens. the only reason your country is at the top of the food chain is because we're all bloody scared of you.
hopefully that is about to change...
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by iamME
hopefully that is about to change...
i cant see how that will change, America will just get to a point when it will pull all the stops and start doing some real damage. If there’s one thing America likes is a fight in the name of freedom and the American way of life.
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:43 AM
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i agree with BIGE totally, im british but share the american point of view. If i get any of the points wrong i apologise, im not an expert in the matter.Even if Iraqi prisoners were tortured, they deserved it more than the innocent civilian who got beheaded!? America and its allies will always be the stronger countries in the world and everybody should unite instead of having what is more or less jealousy towards America.They went to war in order to free the world from terrorism, nobody thanks them for that!? They captured Saddam, nobody thanked them. Anybody who opposes America and its allies are always going to end up losing because it is an unbeatable force. If a full-on world war was to break out,America would unleash everything they have, and most of the world can not compete with that. The terrorists are playing hit and run, and they cant hide for long.
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:52 AM
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okay, first things first, i do not hate americans. BUT, i have always seen australia as a safer and better place to live, i have never been to america, but alot of my friends have, they say its very intimidating in NY and the sort, ive heard of killings for shoes, and clothes and the like, not to mention all the gangs and stuff you hear about, i may well be steriotyping all of america by my view of NY... but i dont think america is a great place, not to mention... you presidents aren't the brightest lights in the sky (which (depending on where you live) you may miss out on in most citys in america...) i mean, bush AND clinton BOTH looked through binoculars with the caps on... how smart can you get? dont get me wrong, i dont hate all things american... but i say australia and NZ are better places to live, i would love to live in japan also, because of their heritage... to say the least, america started with a war, australia started with a party. we follow your lead because if we dont, we will lose out on things. ( star defence system etc) and we need those things if we want to secure our place in history. australia has a smaller population, yes, but we have been around alot shorter of a time, and in my view, accomplised more in that short time, then americans did..
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:27 AM
fpv_gtho fpv_gtho is offline
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very valid points there whiteballz, its almost as if when you follow America's lead, you leave yourself open to international criticism, but we got the FTA out of it. on the other hand, if we had've stayed fence sitters and gone with the UN which was the right decision, its likely Bush wouldve held a grudge.

something thats probably valid for this conversation, is every mega power has their reign at the top of the food chain. go back 3000 and it was the Egyptions, who were overthrown by the Romans but then the world took a giant step back and for 1000 years the only politics was conflict. with the reformation, countries like the UK came out right on top, but the 21st century its the US on top. Who's next? Perhaps Japan or maybe there could be a resurgence from down under (with out people per squar kilometre ratio, its highly unlikely) but im hoping that the UN can successfully achieve its goals
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:42 AM
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I think people do have a valid reason for disliking America rather than just a bit of envy.

America's Foreign Policy is a shambles, and always puts the good of the American people first. Ideologically, there is nothing wrong with this, however, it is often to the detriment of other countries.

There is also the attitude of Americans, not all of them, but there are quite a few who always seem to be spouting: "America is the greatest, how dare you not like us, or our way of life." which is very narrow minded, and doesn't really help anyone, as it tends to piss people off, by indicating that everyone who isn't American is somehow inferior.

A lot of Americans seem eager to pass judgement on other cultures and ways of life, with out even trying them.

I would also argue that you don't have as many Freedoms in America as you like to think:
After 9/11 not much has changed in the UK, there is more security at airports and the like, but we have been dealing from the threat of terrorism in the from of the IRA before. (Who, I believe, were supported be certain areas of the American Population.)

America is in super paranoid, big brother mode.
My parents are going on 'vacation' to the US in the summer, and the ammount of background checks, finger printing, etc is very scary.

I also think America has a bad habit of thinking McDonalds is better than it is.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:51 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotterick
Even if Iraqi prisoners were tortured, they deserved it more than the innocent civilian who got beheaded!?
The law should be upheld by all.
The allies have arrested innocents.
They have killed innocents.
They were civilians, they were innocent.
Treating everyone as guilty until otherwise decided is NOT the rule of law that the great nations were built on. This president above all else has pushed aside that fundamental creed of decency and their own democracy.
Blair is gettign away with doing likewise !
Quote:
America and its allies will always be the stronger countries in the world and everybody should unite instead of having what is more or less jealousy towards America.They went to war in order to free the world from terrorism, nobody thanks them for that!?
Funny, THAT principle is what has guided most terrorist organisation s the world over - anarchists are the one exception !!
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They captured Saddam, nobody thanked them.
Only because they allowed the whole thing t become embroiled in false claims over WMDs. If there had ever been any then you would have had rejoicing as you wished.
Quote:
Anybody who opposes America and its allies are always going to end up losing because it is an unbeatable force. If a full-on world war was to break out,America would unleash everything they have, and most of the world can not compete with that. The terrorists are playing hit and run, and they cant hide for long.
You know the Roman Empire thought like that once.
And the Persian.
And the English.
They all fail as their arrogance mounts.
The real danger in todays world is that it can fundamentally damage the environment in ways it may never recover when it does happen.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:55 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteballz
..BOTH looked through binoculars with the caps on... how smart can you get?
be careful, those simages havve been shown to not be 100% of the story.
There isn't a commander who at some time has lifted his bins and THEN reminded to take off the covers. There are pictures of the famous Bush one which clearly show him then looking through WITHOUT the covers. I'm not defedning his intelligence, I think his more thought out actions prove that. Just not fair to judge when the images aren't the whole truth
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to say the least, america started with a war,
invasion and destruction of indiginous civilisation.
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australia started with a party.
erm, invasion and destruction of indiginous civilisation
[QUOTE] we follow your lead[/UOTE]
Looks like it - sadly they were both British leads
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:59 AM
fpv_gtho fpv_gtho is offline
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he may have been talking about federation here, which happened over a century after settlement
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:02 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho
he may have been talking about federation here, which happened over a century after settlement
ah, good point, before then Oz wasn't a 'real' country !!
Sorry, the "party" makes sense now

Just think once fuly independant you can have Presidents like Bush and Blair
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:05 AM
fpv_gtho fpv_gtho is offline
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lol we were lots of things before then, dominions of the crown, british settlements, mainly a solution to Britains overcrowded jail cells (apart from Perth and Adelaide which were proper settlements)
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