FIAT near stake in Chrysler.

[Zytek_Fan]

They're going to have hell getting rid of the negative view of Alfa, Fiat and Lancia in the US

[cmcpokey]

i would think that for the majority of buyers that would be targeted to buy fiats and alfas (possibly lancia, but i doubt they will make it across the pond) have that negative connotation. they were pulled form the US in the early 80s, and so they have lost any reputation they had.

i think it will work. mini came in without a real great rep, and not a lot of consumer awareness of the brand at all. they have been wildly successful. if fiat comes in with a good marketing campaign, and the right products for the market, they will do very well.

[Kitdy]

Why does Fiat Group keep on Alfa if it's been a money loser for so many years? Has Lancia made any money also?

[Ferrer]

i would think that for the majority of buyers that would be targeted to buy fiats and alfas (possibly lancia, but i doubt they will make it across the pond) have that negative connotation. they were pulled form the US in the early 80s, and so they have lost any reputation they had.

i think it will work. mini came in without a real great rep, and not a lot of consumer awareness of the brand at all. they have been wildly successful. if fiat comes in with a good marketing campaign, and the right products for the market, they will do very well.

Actually Alfa Romeo sold cars in the US well into the 90's, their last model was the 164 which was sold in America until 1995.

You mention Mini. Fair point but there's a fundamental difference. Mini is backed by BMW which have asolid reputation. Alfa Romeo (and Lancia) are backed by Fiat which everywhere except Italy has a disastrous reputation.

Why does Fiat Group keep on Alfa if it's been a money loser for so many years? Has Lancia made any money also?

Alfa Romeo is a legend in Italy and every Fiat manager thinks he can sort it out. It also has a better image than Lancia and as a result is in a better position to atack the premium market and the germans.

Lancia used to have an excellent image in the 80's and early 90's, and they used to sell 300.000 cars every year (which incidentally was the targer for both brands for 2010). But then in the 90's Fiat completely ruined it. They closed the competition department and they took all sportiness away from Lancia an gave it to Alfa Romeo.

[henk4]

Actually Alfa Romeo sold cars in the US well into the 90's, their last model was the 164 which was sold in America until 1995.

You mention Mini. Fair point but there's a fundamental difference. Mini is backed by BMW which have asolid reputation. Alfa Romeo (and Lancia) are backed by Fiat which everywhere except Italy has a disastrous reputation.

Alfa Romeo is a legend in Italy and every Fiat manager thinks he can sort it out. It also has a better image than Lancia and as a result is in a better position to atack the premium market and the germans.

Lancia used to have an excellent image in the 80's and early 90's, and they used to sell 300.000 cars every year (which incidentally was the targer for both brands for 2010). But then in the 90's Fiat completely ruined it. They closed the competition department and they took all sportiness away from Lancia an gave it to Alfa Romeo.

quite a few things to contest there. Fiat, disastrous reputation except in Italy? Really? Lancia reputation in the eighties: Rusting Monte Carlos, HPEs etc....and the Delta was not the most reliable car available....The WRC cars may have pushed up the image a little, but the quality of the production cars was abysmal.

[Ferrer]

quite a few things to contest there. Fiat, disastrous reputation except in Italy? Really? Lancia reputation in the eighties: Rusting Monte Carlos, HPEs etc....and the Delta was not the most reliable car available....The WRC cars may have pushed up the image a little, but the quality of the production cars was abysmal.

For premium cars? Certainly, Fiat has a disastrous reputation.

As for Lancia, in the second half of the 80's Lancia was on a bit of a roll. The Delta was literally winning everything, they had an endurance racing programme, the Thema had a Ferrari engine and above all the cars sold very well.

But most of all in relation to Alfa Romeo, Lancia was like Mercedes-Benz.

[henk4]

For premium cars? Certainly, Fiat has a disastrous reputation.

As for Lancia, in the second half of the 80's Lancia was on a bit of a roll. The Delta was literally winning everything, they had an endurance racing programme, the Thema had a Ferrari engine and above all the cars sold very well.

But most of all in relation to Alfa Romeo, Lancia was like Mercedes-Benz.

who talked about premium cars? Fiat has a good reputation for smaller cars (and I would not mind owning a 130 coupe).
The Lancia period you refer to saw an add in Dutch newspapers, indicating how many Lancias would come to Holland and how many were still available (in other words, you had to be quick). By April they stopped with that advertisement.

[Ferrer]

who talked about premium cars? Fiat has a good reputation for smaller cars (and I would not mind owning a 130 coupe).
The Lancia period you refer to saw an add in Dutch newspapers, indicating how many Lancias would come to Holland and how many were still available (in other words, you had to be quick). By April they stopped with that advertisement.

The discussion was about premium cars. Well at least Mini and BMW certainly are. And Alfa Romeo is too (or pretends to be at least).

In 1990 for instance Lancia sold 300.000 cars, which was 100.000 more than Alfa Romeo and some 70.000 more than Volvo. It wasn't even that far off BMW and Audi, about 60.000 cars behind them.

EDIT The figures are for Europe.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

What are the sales figures today. or at least last year?

[Ferrer]

What are the sales figures today. or at least last year?

Europe, 2008:

BMW 680.000
Alfa Romeo 102.000
Lancia 113.000
Audi 665.000
Volvo 225.000

The picture is quite clear...

[henk4]

I don't think the Fiat brand is trying to enter the US market with a premium purpose in mind. Alfa and Lancia is different, but I suspect that from the just over 100000 Lancias sold, the great majority are Ypsilons. Very popular with Italian women, but I doubt the American women will other preferences.

[Ferrer]

I don't think the Fiat brand is trying to enter the US market with a premium purpose in mind. Alfa and Lancia is different, but I suspect that from the just over 100000 Lancias sold, the great majority are Ypsilons. Very popular with Italian women, but I doubt the American women will other preferences.

The Ypsilon alone saved Lancia in the dark early noughties.

And despite Fiat not being premium, the 500 is the most premium of their cars and that's what they plan on selling in the US, at least under the Fiat badge. but Fiat's main focus for the US is Alfa Romeo, not the 500.

[Kitdy]

What are the odds for longterm success in this plot?

[henk4]

And despite Fiat not being premium, the 500 is the most premium of their cars and that's what they plan on selling in the US, at least under the Fiat badge. but Fiat's main focus for the US is Alfa Romeo, not the 500.

premium in the sense of snobbery? I suppose built quality will not differ from the Panda, if I am not mistaken they come from Poland.

[Ferrer]

premium in the sense of snobbery? I suppose built quality will not differ from the Panda, if I am not mistaken they come from Poland.

Yep added value, perceived quality. Call it as you like, but it sells cars.