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Thread: Supercars Annual '69

  1. #31
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    Now, my final entry for the Delta 88 series is this March, 1970, Car & Driver test.
    Terry
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    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  2. #32
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    I don't have that one; thanks for posting.
    Wow, over 4,500 lbs and only a 2.93:1 axle ratio yet it still gets to 60 mph in under 7 seconds. And a 140 mph top speed.
    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleet 500 View Post
    Here is a test of a 1963 Dodge Ramcharger (also known as Max Wedge).
    A 4.2 second 0-60 mph and 12.5 @ 114 mph!
    I do not have that road test. I only had the basic 1/4 mile times in my database until now. I just copied that part to my collection.

    All Max Wedge cars are simply awesome. As you very well know the 62-64 Dodge and Plymouths were very light cars compared to the competition and the Max Wedge jobs were soundly engineered and highly developed from the beginning, hence their name, Max Wedge.

    Most were not street-driven. In fact, Mopar cautioned buyers against running them wide open for more than 14 continuous seconds at a time, because they were not designed for that kind of operation. Their valve guides and seals were only designed to operate for about 13 seconds, or less. They were notorious oil burners. That’s because the whole engine was set up very loosed, just the ticket for drag racing.

    I actually knew a guy who owned one of them suckers in the mid-seventies. He had it set up to run on the street and it was a true eye-opener. Apparently, the car took out a lot of so-called heavies. However, most people never liked them because they were always kind of ugly.

    My second cousin, Kenny used to own a 1964 Dodge Polara with a mildly modified 383 that was said to be a very quick car. With a pair of old skinny 7.75-14 bias-ply specials on the rear, it could easily burn rubber for one-hundred feet.

    Believe it or not, Kenny later owned an original 1965 Barracuda with a weird late-fifties 365 CID Caddy engine transplant. Why? Who can say really? I think that the Caddy was just lying around, and it was made use of in that un-orthodox fashion.

    Kenny had that mother jacked up in the air three feet or so in period style dragster fashion. It burned rubber like crazy, handled evilly, and somehow ‘looked’’ just right, painted in a sinister black over red interior. More stories on that car later…
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleet 500 View Post
    I don't have that one; thanks for posting.
    Wow, over 4,500 lbs and only a 2.93:1 axle ratio yet it still gets to 60 mph in under 7 seconds. And a 140 mph top speed.
    My Uncle Len bought one brand new in 1970, which was very similar to the one in the C&D test. Len’s was Aztec Gold with the Gold Brocade bench-seat interior. His would only pull a ‘police certified’ 133 mph on the speedometer.

    Living in Val Caron, a suburb in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, that car was truly unique in that it was the only one around. Len street raced lots of cars with the big Delta and come away victorious often. It would really get away from a dead stop and the torque just kept it going strong all the way to redline.

    Len being the better driver often won right off the line, even though the Olds was peg-legged with no limited slip. Being heavy helped somewhat. That same Olds took out his brothers 1971 429 Cobra Jet Torino GT hands down.

    Admittedly, Uncle Cecil was a menace. He was incapable of leaving the line without huge rooster tails of tire smoke curling up behind him for 100 feet. At the time, I never liked the big-assed ‘yellow-bird’ as Cecil aptly named it. It was painted in Canary Yellow with white interior.

    Uncle Len even smoked off a new 1971 LS6 Monte Carlo SS454. I was not present when it happened but bad news travels fast and soon enough the Montes reputation was at stake. In those days, Sudbury Nickel was not happy as long as that W-33 ran amok.
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog ear View Post
    Most were not street-driven. In fact, Mopar cautioned buyers against running them wide open for more than 14 continuous seconds at a time, because they were not designed for that kind of operation. Their valve guides and seals were only designed to operate for about 13 seconds, or less. They were notorious oil burners. That’s because the whole engine was set up very loosed, just the ticket for drag racing.
    It says a lot about automotive engineering that, almost forty years later, you have people complaining they can ONLY use the launch control a handful of times on the Nissan GT-R to do neck-snapping starts before fail-safe mode kicks in when the Max Edge Mopar couldn't even be DRIVEN at full blast for more than a 14 second.
    I'm dropping out to create a company that starts with motorcycles, then cars, and forty years later signs a legendary Brazilian driver who has a public and expensive feud with his French teammate.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofthering View Post
    It says a lot about automotive engineering that, almost forty years later, you have people complaining they can ONLY use the launch control a handful of times on the Nissan GT-R to do neck-snapping starts before fail-safe mode kicks in when the Max Edge Mopar couldn't even be DRIVEN at full blast for more than a 14 second.
    And like the car magazines back then said, why would you want to use full throttle for more than 15 seconds when it runs a 12.5 second 1/4 mile!

    Here are 3 more scans from the same issue...

    A 428 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ. It weighs quite a bit (4,400 lbs), yet still has good times. This would make a good luxo-cruiser.

    A Dodge Charger 500 with the 426-Hemi engine and 4.10 gears. As expected, very good acceleration even what must have been a big traction problem.

    And a 427 Chevy Impala. This one seems kind of heavy for an Impala (4,358 lbs). Usually the weigh 3,800-3,900 lbs.
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    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog ear View Post
    I do not have that road test. I only had the basic 1/4 mile times in my database until now. I just copied that part to my collection.
    I knew about the road test and the performance but did not obtain the magazine until about 2 years ago.

    All Max Wedge cars are simply awesome. As you very well know the 62-64 Dodge and Plymouths were very light cars compared to the competition and the Max Wedge jobs were soundly engineered and highly developed from the beginning, hence their name, Max Wedge.
    Yes, very sneaky of Mopar to do that... the weight-savings which is as good as adding horsepower.

    Most were not street-driven. In fact, Mopar cautioned buyers against running them wide open for more than 14 continuous seconds at a time, because they were not designed for that kind of operation. Their valve guides and seals were only designed to operate for about 13 seconds, or less. They were notorious oil burners. That’s because the whole engine was set up very loosed, just the ticket for drag racing.
    Yes, not practical for the street, that's for sure.

    I actually knew a guy who owned one of them suckers in the mid-seventies. He had it set up to run on the street and it was a true eye-opener. Apparently, the car took out a lot of so-called heavies. However, most people never liked them because they were always kind of ugly.
    Yep. As much as I like the power of the Max Wedge Mopars, my top pick is still the '69 Dodge Coronet R/T 440-Magnum. If bought new, I would choose 3.55:1 gears and Torquflite automatic transmission (which I would almost immediately put in a shift kit). I did win another magazine from eBay. I should get it in a few days. The April, 1969 issue of Super Stock. In it, are tests of a Pontiac GTO and GTO Judge, a Hemi Charger and a Coronet R/T. I already know the 1/4 mile figures for the Coronet, which was tested with a 4.10 axle ratio and 4-speed manual trans... 13.83 @ 102.27 mph.

    My second cousin, Kenny used to own a 1964 Dodge Polara with a mildly modified 383 that was said to be a very quick car. With a pair of old skinny 7.75-14 bias-ply specials on the rear, it could easily burn rubber for one-hundred feet.
    A good engine, those 383s. As you know, I own a '66 Plymouth Fury VIP with the engine. Very good low-end torque. Someday, I may replace the Fury with a lighter Mopar also with a 383. Something like a '66 Plymouth Satellite or a "plain" '69 Dodge Coronet (not an R/T). My Plymouth weighs 4,330 lbs and those two cars weigh more like 3,600-3,700 lbs. I would put in headers, 3.55s and (again) a shift kit. Should run somewhere in the 14s so equipped. Maybe low-14s at about 98 mph. Of course, the engine could always be built to about 450-475 (or more) hp, which would easily put it in the 13s. But I don't want to drive a car which only gets about 6 mpg!

    Believe it or not, Kenny later owned an original 1965 Barracuda with a weird late-fifties 365 CID Caddy engine transplant. Why? Who can say really? I think that the Caddy was just lying around, and it was made use of in that un-orthodox fashion.
    I'm surprised a 365-cu-in Cadillac engine fits in the engine compartment of a '65 Barracuda! It should have made for a very responsive Barracuda. The 365-cu-in Cad engine, in a '55-'58 Cadillac, could run 0-60 mph in 11 seconds.

    Kenny had that mother jacked up in the air three feet or so in period style dragster fashion. It burned rubber like crazy, handled evilly, and somehow ‘looked’’ just right, painted in a sinister black over red interior. More stories on that car later…
    Yeah, I don't jack up my cars, never did. It adversely affects handling. I don't mind if the rear is slightly higher than the front, though.
    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  8. #38
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingofthering
    It says a lot about automotive engineering that, almost forty years later, you have people complaining they can ONLY use the launch control a handful of times on the Nissan GT-R to do neck-snapping starts before fail-safe mode kicks in when the Max Edge Mopar couldn't even be DRIVEN at full blast for more than a 14 second.


    Quote:
    Posted by Fleet
    And like the car magazines back then said, why would you want to use full throttle for more than 15 seconds when it runs a 12.5 second 1/4 mile!


    reply by dog ear
    Lots of fools might have wanted to take one out for a midnight run in Nevada in order to ‘see’ what they would do top end. Or, they might try to overtake the big four: Cobra, Vette, Ferrari, and Jag, or worse yet, depending on one’s sanity, try to out-run a cop.


    Quote:
    Posted by Fleet
    And a 427 Chevy Impala. This one seems kind of heavy for an Impala (4,358 lbs). Usually the weigh 3,800-3,900 lbs.


    Reply by dog ear
    I have road tests for full-sized big block Chevys that weigh as much, or more, as early as 1966. Biscayne and Bel-Airs were lightest of all.


    Quote:
    Posted by dog ear
    Believe it or not, Kenny later owned an original 1965 Barracuda with a weird late-fifties 365 CID Caddy engine transplant. Why? Who can say really? I think that the Caddy was just lying around, and it was made use of in that un-orthodox fashion.


    Posted by Fleet
    I'm surprised a 365-cu-in Cadillac engine fits in the engine compartment of a '65 Barracuda! It should have made for a very responsive Barracuda. The 365-cu-in Cad engine, in a '55-'58 Cadillac, could run 0-60 mph in 11 seconds.


    reply by dog ear
    Never did understand it myself. When I first heard about the engine swap, I thought that everyone who said Caddy 365 must have been mistaken, and meant Mopar 361, but such was not the case.

    I never did look under the hood, but I know that it was indeed a 365 Cad plant. I am not sure how fast it actually was, but it certainly was not as quick as uncle Lens 455-powered W-33 Delta 88, nor uncle Cecil’s 71 429 Cobra Jet Torino.

    I do know that it maxed out somewhere around 120 mph. I also know how it feels to hear them old nylon ply tires start to disintegrate at that speed on a pot-holed secondary highway. After stopping 17 miles later, you could see that very large chunks of rubber was missing from the tires, so much so that you could actually ‘see’ the heat-blistered tubes inside.

    Scariest thing was Kenny just laughed, had a few more beers later on into the night, and then drove home another 10-12 miles without bothering to change the tires.
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  9. #39
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    A 340 is a very good engine to put in a '64-'66 Barracuda because it's about the same size as the 273 V-8 and it makes good power for its size.

    I don't think I've heard of a Cadillac engine in a Barracuda. But it's probably one-of-a-kind!

    Yes, for drag racing, the Biscayne and Bel-Airs are the best choice (lighter weight).

    The Max-Wedge would not be a good choice for a top end run, unless the rear end was changed to higher gearing, like 2.93s or 2.76s. They are also not at all aerodynamic which would make it kind of hard to get them up to high speeds.
    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  10. #40
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    Yes, the Cad - Barracuda was a one-of-a-kind swap. Never heard of it before oe since. Why would we? The 340 is exatly the same size demensionally as the 273, and will run circles around the 365 Caddy, anytime.

    That 365 Cad was very heavy also; much more than even a Mopar 440 would have been. The swap itself only made sense to someone who did not give a shit for commom sense and just wanted to see if it could have been done. Simply put; a wacko job.
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog ear View Post
    Yes, the Cad - Barracuda was a one-of-a-kind swap. Never heard of it before oe since. Why would we? The 340 is exatly the same size demensionally as the 273, and will run circles around the 365 Caddy, anytime.

    That 365 Cad was very heavy also; much more than even a Mopar 440 would have been. The swap itself only made sense to someone who did not give a shit for commom sense and just wanted to see if it could have been done. Simply put; a wacko job.
    Who know? Maybe had had a 365 Cadillac engine which he got for free? Must have been some reason to use it.

    Anyway, here is a road test of a '62 Chevy 409 SS/S Bel-Air. The one was not exactly completely stock (some engine and chassis work done). The text says it was in "considerably better than showroom stock condition." Still very impressive times because the changes were not major.
    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  12. #42
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    Here is the article...
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    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  13. #43
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    Thanks, Fleet! I have the same article, but, it is a great conversational piece, nonetheless. I really appreaciate you posting it.

    Reason that this particular 409 was in "considerably better than showroom stock condition," was due to it being a top running NHRA Super Super/Stock car. At the time, Frank Sanderson was a leading aftermarket header manufacturer.

    Frank Sanderson was one of the drag racers with direct connections to Chevrolet. Others were ''Dyno'' Don Nicholson, Hayden Proffitt, ''Grumpy'' Jenkins, Joe Gardner, Bill Thomas, and Ronnie Sox, to name just a few.
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  14. #44
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    I have a lot of articles on the 409, Fleet. If you are interested, I can post them for you, and others to read.

    Here they are in order:

    April, 1961 Hot Rod
    409: Biggest Chevy yet

    June, 1961 Motor Trend
    Chevrolet’s New Impala Super Spot with the 409-cubic-inch engine

    September, 1961 Motor Trend
    Chevy’s Hot Impala SS

    December, 1961 Motor Trend
    Driving Chevrolet’s 409 Super Sport

    March, 1962 Car Life
    Chevrolet 409

    July, 1962 Motor Trend
    Chevrolet – a hot one The Powerful Portrait of the 409SS

    March, 1963 Car Life
    Chevrolet Impala Super Sport 409 with Powerglide

    March, 1963 Hot Rod
    Hayden Proffitt’s Stock Car Secrets
    *this is another NHRA Super Stock drag car article (very nice)

    December, 1964 Car & Driver
    Chevy 409

    March, 1965 Super Stock & Drag Illustrated
    Thumper|: B/S National Champ
    *this is another NHRA B/Stock drag car article


    I also have a newer ‘dyno test’ on the 409, and a couple of other NHRA Stock and Super Stocker articles.

    You may also like to read a couple on the 1963 Chevy ZL-1, with two of the fastest Super Stocks in the country at the time of their inception.

    Let me know…but,for now, here is one to enjoy (magazine unknown)
    Terry
    _______________________________________________________________________
    You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".

  15. #45
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    dog ear, how many GB is your collection of magazine scans/data total?

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