Example please.
Based on blind patriotism. You claim it was right because of the belief you leaders engendered into you that it saved lives when the military leaders (the U.S. ones!) believed it unnecessary. You then state it must be right because Truman said. That is blind patriotism.
At the cost of how many lives of soldiers of women and children?
“They are not the type to surrender.” An exquisitely bigoted comment and again an example of parroting the propaganda fed you to justify the act. Time was needed and if the knowledge of what could happen could have been conveyed to the few who would not agree it may have made a difference. Surely a more humane way than killing civilians. If that failed then you cold have still used your bombs.
In a June 18, 1945 meeting with Truman and his military advisors, Assistant Secretary of War John McCloy argued that Japan should be permitted to retain the Emperor and should be given a warning of the atomic bomb in order to bring an earlier and less deadly surrender.
Avenues for a humane solution were not exhausted.
Right. Without taking advice from those he was happy to have lead his military. Hitler made similar rash decisions while ignoring his military leaders.
I think you are loosing track of the debate. That particular conversation started here (kind of) -
Originally Posted by Fleet 500
Crisis, yes I know that there were high-ranking U.S. officials opposed to using the A-bomb, but the ultimate decision was up to President Harry S Truman. And you can bet that the U.S. troops who were to invade Japan in Nov., 1945 had the A-bomb not been used were in favor of using it.
Originally Posted by crisis
So you take this back then?
Originally Posted by Fleet 500
No, because there were also high-ranking officials who favored using the A-bomb.
Originally Posted by crisis
As I said, who?
Originally Posted by Fleet 500
I'll get back to you on that.
Originally Posted by crisis
Considering there were merely 4 days between bombings it didn’t give them a lot of time. And as stated in the quotes I have posted many (in which I meant many
U.S. military leaders as per the examples that I posted)
believed surrender negotiations were already underway.
You then went on to outline how 3 Japanese military advisers would not vote with the other 3 in the JAPANESE Supreme Council For the Direction of the War to surrender.
Many may have "believed" the Japanese were ready to surrender, but a few notable high-ranking officials were not.
On the 13th, the Supreme Council For the Direction of the War (known as the "Big 6") met to address the Postdam Proclamation's call for surrender. Three members of the Big 6 favored immediate surrender; but the other three- War Minister Anami, Army Chief of Staff Umezu, and Navy Chief of Staff Toyoda- adamantly refused. The meeting adjourned in a deadlock, with no decision to surrender .
So I again asked
There is nothing in your post to support this comment. “Many may have "believed" the Japanese were ready to surrender, but a few notable high-ranking officials were not.”
Who are these notable high-ranking officials ?
Because you listed no U.S. military leaders.
And you answered thus.
Who? The ones mentioned in the parts I posted... the War Minister Anami, Army Chief of Staff Umezu and the Navy Chief of Staff Toyoda. All of whom refused to agree to a surrender.
I will ask again,
can you find any high ranking U.S. military leaders who thought the war could only be ended by dropping the nuclear bomb and Japan would never surrender unless?
And I would say that no country or military force in history has ever done such a thing. Then again no other country has used nuclear weapons much less on civilians.
Chenogne massacre 1944
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre
No Gun Ri Massacre between July 1950.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri
My Lai Massacre March 1968
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
The various atrocities carried out by Tiger force in Vietnam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Force
• Battle of the Bismarck Sea- On orders from U.S. Army Air Force General George Kenney, U.S. aircraft strafed and bombed unarmed survivors from sunken Japanese warships and transports swimming or floating in the ocean.
• Strafing unarmed survivors from the sunken Japanese cruiser Nachi
• Strafing unarmed survivors from the sunken Japanese cruiser Kumano [13]
• Strafing unarmed survivors from the Japanese battleship Yamato and the cruiser Yahagi during Operation Ten-Go.
• Canicattì slaughter: killing of Italian civilians by an American officer
• Biscari massacre: killing of Axis Prisoners of War in Sicily.
• Dachau massacre: killing of captured concentration camp guards by American soldiers and inmates of the camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_...g_World_War_II
I’ll remind you countries go to war without the 100% support of their population. Just like Bush did. Making the civilians pay for the decisions of others may be ok for those with no conscience.
What is sad is that you can not differentiate the difference between objective criticism of particular acts and subjective criticism of a country or culture.